quite what the show is saying

That women are often victims? I may be slightly clueless.

Not to sound unfeminist, but they often are. Also, a lot of guys die too. (And a lot of the women in that vid didn't die.)

(Also, what's a numberslut called here? A numberDean?)

Amyliz, the point was the violence against and evil of. Based on that, Ellen and Jo wouldn't be in it--although I suppose they could have used clips from BUABS.

Did it not go all the way to the end, though? Because Jo's part in BUaBS definitely should have been in, and even Ellen in AHBL.

I did get the point of it, as I understood it, and I liked the way it switched halfway through. But I'm not sure I get what you mean by how it's a telling statement on the show -- based *solely* on gender, everyone has a pretty equal opportunity to be a victim or a victimizer as far as I can tell.

based *solely* on gender, everyone has a pretty equal opportunity to be a victim or a victimizer as far as I can tell.

Everyone has an equal opportunity, maybe. And yet the show has, particularly in season one, and as shown in the vid, given us more women as victims, and sexualized that victimhood in a way that they have not done with the men. Women in showers, women in swimsuits, women in bedclothes, women in bed, dying.

Where the women aren't victims or dead, they're evil; or they're evil and dead. The women in season 1 who weren't victimized, evil, or dead were pretty much anomalies compared to the rest.

Yeah, it's an overstatement, but the film language they're using (and Nutty can speak to this better than I can) is the kind of language used in horror movies, which fetishize violence against women in uncomfortable ways.

You don't see the violence against men fetished on the show, you don't see male victim's bodies displayed the way the women's are.

Using the clips of that video to make a statement is not really fair because of all the context that was lost. I would have thought there was violence against and evil of from watching that video also, but that isn't the case. And with the boys (and John for that matter) love of Mary, I definitely have never had an anti-female vibe on the show. That point aside, it's a nicely made video and I like it for being different.

And I should state (not that I have to) that I enjoy the hell out of the show. But season 1 made me really uncomfortable about what it was saying about the position of women in the Supernatural universe. Season 2 was a little bit better, with the Harvelles and Det. Ballard; but the finale was not reassuring.

Amyliz, the point was the violence against and evil of. Based on that, Ellen and Jo wouldn't be in it--although I suppose they could have used clips from BUABS.

I think the BUABS clip would have worked, and I can't wait to read their making of about the vid, because I can also see reasons for not including it or AHBL:II with Ellen. (BUABS because it was sexualized violence played AS sexualized violence, rather than just violence, sexualized; AHBL:II because, while it was gendered, it wasn't sexual.)

but that isn't the case

Um, what? That's absolutely the case. All of those are clips from the show. The vid is made by two women who adore the show.

They didn't invent the clips. The show isn't about violence against women: but it uses it, in (I suggest) a relatively unthinking way. And the vid is about holding that up to the light and saying, "Do you see what you're doing, here?"

the show has, particularly in season one, and as shown in the vid, given us more women as victims, and sexualized that victimhood in a way that they have not done with the men.

I think there's a lot to be said, or explored, there about the nature of violence toward women, in general, and the nature of a lot of the myths the show has used. I'd have to think about that for a long time before posting much about it, but I will say this: I don't think Kripke et al have an agenda, even if I also believe they haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place.

haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place

This. I mean, it's not a show about women saving themselves, but OTOH they're not Captivity...

I don't think Kripke et al have an agenda, even if I also believe they haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place.

No, I don't think any of this is a conscious agenda. They're well-meaning people. Looked at one at a time, there isn't a single episode I would really point to and say, "that's misogynistic". But I look at that vid, and I'm both fascinated and horrified: there's been that much? Holy cow.