Snippets from John's latest answer post:

Parker's foster parents were in the house when it exploded.

Christian Kane performed the stunt where he got hit by the car in The Boost Job himself.

But I think that's what Liese is objecting to - by presenting Don's ploy working as "simply how things were," the show makes assumptions about Japanese business culture that are based on stereotypes and cliche.

But aren't they stereotypes and clichés as they would have existed in that time?

And I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I saw the Honda issue as showing us that Don, himself, thinks he's clever and that Roger doesn't see himself as a racist but sees his attitude as perfectly justified.

And I'm doing a crappy job of explaining myself and by no means, am I discounting Liese's discomfort with the turn the show took in that episode.

But aren't they stereotypes and clichés as they would have existed in that time?

They're the same ones that exist today - Japanese are obsessed with formalities, they highly value honor and rules, they're easily offended by Americans who don't know those rules, etc etc etc.

That Don's scheme worked implies strongly that the writers believe those stereotypes to be true. If he had failed - if the Honda execs had looked at him and said "You're crazy - why would you think we'd pick a company who presented nothing over one that bent the rules a little and really impressed us??" - we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

They're the same ones that exist today - Japanese are obsessed with formalities, they highly value honor and rules, they're easily offended by Americans who don't know those rules, etc etc etc.

Weren't Japanese business practices in the sixties very formal though?

How is that more or less stereotypical than getting whores for clients in Manhattan?

You've made me very thinky, Liese.

Most of thinking is ongoing, but I have reached one conclusion. The few times that I've read behind-the-scenese interviews and whatnot regarding Mad Men, they made me like the show less, so I pretty much stopped reading them. But I think the reason for that is that the show's intent and what I get from it are very different. In part because I don't see these characters as first-person past. And partly because things that are widespread are not necessarily universal and I feel like that distinction is not made in the universe building.

Which I don't exactly mean as a ding, just that, I don't think they are doing what they think they are doing, but what they are actually doing is worth watching, to me, anyway.

Well, that's a nice muddy thought that doesn't say much. Back in the oven with you, idea.

How is that more or less stereotypical than getting whores for clients in Manhattan?

Because for every time the show gives us something cliched about American business culture, it also gives us the exception to that rule - we're shown over and over again that not everyone is like that, even in this time and place.

By contrast, every Japanese exec we've seen so far has been a confirmation of stereotypes rather than an exploration. And since clients in this show tend to be foils for the main characters, I'm guessing we're not going to see Don's assumptions challenged any time soon.

Because for every time the show gives us something cliched about American business culture, it also gives us the exception to that rule - we're shown over and over again that not everyone is like that, even in this time and place.

Well then, I suppose it's possible we'll still see the exception to the rule, especially in a very unexpected manner. That's something the show has been very consistent about.

Parker's foster parents were in the house when it exploded.

He did say "she blew up her foster parents" didn't he? It took me a second to realize he'd actually said that.

Christian Kane performed the stunt where he got hit by the car in The Boost Job himself.

I watched that scene about five times saying, "That sure LOOKS like him. It can't be; they'd never let him do THAT. No, I think that's really him!" As we'd say affectionately back home, that boy's crazy.

Hoodsurfing. IJS.

Mad Men: Yes, Jessica, thank you so much! That is exactly what I was trying to posit. The show discusses Japanese stereotypes by Roger`s attitudes, but then exhibits stereotypes by the actual marketing plotline.
 
If it were about presenting Japanes business culture as highly formalized, that`s one thing. I was okay with the "did we get a gift?" bit. But the plot hinged on Don outsmarting the Japanese execs with a move calculated to make them forget a repeated insult. (Which I kinda doubt would work anyway; I know I wouldn`t want to work with someone with Roger`s complete disdain for me.) He was smug because he was tricking his rival, but it took the guise of him tricking Honda.
 
The tactic Don used was directly out of the book; he shamed the Japanese execs into giving him business. The book is all about guilt culture (us) vs. shame culture (Japan) which I think is so much bullshit, but was highly influential and sadly self-referential for the Japanese in later years.
 
That the ploy worked says to me that the authors buy into this wartime view of Japanese culture.