Are we really supposed to like any of the Mad Men characters? They're all awful in some way or other. Well, Peggy and Joan - no, I find them more sympathetic but they can be awful, also. It's like watching aliens who are very human shaped so I can forget, for a while, that they are so damn weird, but it always comes out.

I would really be curious as to how a non-slashy person views what's happening on this show. It seems way past slash and damn near past subtext to me.

I think I made an almost identical post last week. Peter was talking about falling in love with your CI because of all the time together and close contact. And then he says, "that's why my wife is glad my CI is a man." or something similar.

I still haven't seen this weeks ep, but i need to remedy that.

I'm supposed to look at Roger and think, this is how people like me felt about minorities, just a short while ago. But instead, I have to think, this is how people felt about me.

Ah. Of course. Thank you for putting it like that.

And in completely other news:

the whole "I'm glad I know the .... people .... I know" speech

Seriously! The text is really only barely sub.

Yeah, I'm confused. Was that her aunt? Was it a fellow con artist? Why did she sell out Charlotte about their family to the bad guy afterward?

I assumed that it was her Aunt. Sophie really is a part of that titled family. What sell out are you referring to?

Jon - I thought the same thing.

Liese, I guess knowing that people like Roger felt that way about people like me is offset (for me) by the many people of Roger's generation that could have felt that way but instead were welcoming and open-minded and I am talking about people like my Uncle Bru who was in the Pacific Theatre during WWII and badly injured and saw close friends blown to bits and yet could not have been more of a sweetheart (in his own gruff way).

I assumed that it was her Aunt. Sophie really is a part of that titled family. What sell out are you referring to?

I thought there was a line at the end when the bad guy did his double cross about how her aunt said that their family name would hurt more than help with getting the audience with Title Granting Guy?

Liese,

I get where you are coming from. I actually felt this way about nearly all of the characters in the first couple of episodes (pilot included) and it took me awhile, because of this, for me to warm up to the show.

Now, I suppose the only people I'm really rooting for now are Peggy and Joan. For example, nearly every one of the older male characters have said something incredibly racist (Japanese, African Americans, Jews, etc.) over the seasons and the discussion of the Civil Rights movement that have been occurring this season is really uncomfortable.

Yes, this is all time appropriate, but given the public political discussions in the US at this time, I am ill-humored about it.

This is not unlike Weiner and friends' take on the Sopranos. Those were odious people at their core - all equally flawed, but more physically violent - and yet they wrote them in such a way that the audience could root for them.

I can't Mad Men, and I couldn't watch The Sopranos for that very reason.

I thought there was a line at the end when the bad guy did his double cross about how her aunt said that their family name would hurt more than help with getting the audience with Title Granting Guy?

I don't remember the details of that, but the aunt wasn't in on the con so she probably didn't realize the significance of what she told him.

I thought it was a scandal that Charlotte had specifically been embroiled in that was a problem, not the family name. But I had forgotten all about it until Nora mentioned it, so i may well have gotten it wrong.