Didn't it look like Joan had scratch marks, not just strap marks?

Yeah, I thought so.

I think that I felt for Betty more in this episode than I ever had.

Yeah, seriously. This show is so sad.

For serious! This was a total downer episode.

I really hurt for Betty. And I can't believe Don baldfaced it. I don't think he realizes he's having any effect on her in his attempt to protect himself.

And it occurred to me that since he's living a lie entirely, he must feel comfortable with lying. It must not seem like there's a line to draw with lying to Betty about his life and lying to her about his affairs.

And, oh, my Joan! I liked seeing her more relaxed at home, but it was strange to cast her back into the societal norms. But it was heartbreaking to see her constantly swallowing everything, when she's so competent.

And she would be damn good in television and they're stupid not to realize it. She was so savvy with picking up on what was appealing and what wasn't in the scripts.

It was a very Buffista moment for me with her reading; she went total fangirl, but knew how to use it. And, as usual, having more than a nodding acquaintance with popular culture is looked down on.

I kept expecting Betty to find anything. What, I don't know, but something. When she finally was on the floor next to the bed, I thought there'd be something under the bed or she'd figure out that there was a secret compartment to the back of Don's nightstand. This despite that the show has shown Don burning everything relating to Dick Whitman. I've been conditioned by other shows, I expect.

Hasn't Matt Weiner implied that he wants to show how the changes of the 60s were wrought from the mores of the 50s? I felt that the scene with Joan and her finance are laying the groundwork for her breaking up with him entirely and forging ahead with a career of her own in tv/broadcasting/advertising. I hope that she doesn't let Harry's complete glossing over of her mad skillz stop her from recognizing that she can shine in that new job. And I'm even more pissed off at Roger for further yanking the rug out from under Joan. He should have recognized the value of her contribution from what Harry was saying, I thought.

It's fiction of course, and of course it wasn't really as bad as all that, either. My mother is an engineer, one of 3 women in the entire college getting an engineering degree in 1938 and by the 1950's, she had 4 kids and had worked as a number cruncher & project manager for George Gallup and later in R&D for Westinghouse on integrated circuits. She wasn't the only woman working in a professional capacity, although it wasn't usual, true.

I have to say, watching the ep after reading this thread, I was disappointed by the Joan/Dr scene. The water line - she offered to get him a drink, he asked for water, and then she forgot about it because she was burbling about her job. It was rude of him to dismiss her excitement about work (and especially to do it in that condescending "don't worry your pretty little head about such things" tone of voice), but I didn't think it was rude of him to remind her that she forgot to get the water.

I'm glad Betty seems to have finally grown a backbone, but I'm worried she's going to become suicidal with only the kids around for company.

but I didn't think it was rude of him to remind her that she forgot to get the water.

no, but the way he said it was.

The thing with Joan is that she prides herself on knowing how to work a situation. I think she's playing a role with the fiance and it's slipping.

And those were definitely strap marks from her bra.

I was all WOOHOO BETTY! at the end. Fucking Don. I hope he lives in pain for a while.

Yeah, Betty definitely needs some adult companionship. Think it's going to come from horse-riding guy?

I like the contrast between Don's serial infidelity and Betty's restraint. So I kinda hope they don't end up there. But I really hope she finds someone to freaking talk to.

I don't think Harry gave Roger enough information for him to see Joan's contribution. First, I don't think Roger has a clear idea of what Harry's doing. And secondly, at first it was pitched as, well, just have some of the secretaries read some stuff through. So I think Roger still saw it in that light. I don't think Joan's contributions were clear to him.

But I do love this storyline in general. I like seeing how Harry knows how important television is going to be, but nobody else really pings to it. They've earned their stripes in print, and they're comfortable there.

I don't think Harry gave Roger enough information for him to see Joan's contribution. First, I don't think Roger has a clear idea of what Harry's doing. And secondly, at first it was pitched as, well, just have some of the secretaries read some stuff through. So I think Roger still saw it in that light. I don't think Joan's contributions were clear to him.

I don't think it occured to Harry to make it clear what she was doing. He never saw Joan as anything more than a temporary substitute for the man who would REALLY be doing that job.

I don't know, Jessica. Harry seemed pretty surprised & pleased by Joan's contributions in the meeting with the clients. I don't think it ever struck him, though, that she would even be interested in the job.

I don't think it ever struck him, though, that she would even be interested in the job.

What do you see as the difference between this and what I said?

(Genuine question, not being snotty.)