Elizabeth Bathory was arguably worse. Vlad at least had the excuse of being twisted by his experiences as a captive of the Turks when he was but a child. He only tortured Turks; his own people apparently loved him. Bathory was just fugnuts. She'd torture her own servants and bathe in the newly-drawn blood of young girls. That's a lotta blood, though. Maybe she just washed her face in it.

He only tortured Turks; his own people apparently loved him.

IIRC, he didn't get that Impaler nick by torturing Turks, but by impaling his own men to freak the Turks out. (It worked.)

But yeah, Bathory was straight up whacked.

I thought he only impaled the Turks. Because he hated them.

Elizabeth Bathory was arguably worse.

Oh goodness, yes. We'd just been talking about how you make up stories that make people sound even worse to villify them further and the whole fun in scaring people around the fire (for Bathory, the whole bathing thing is probably legend. As if she wasn't bad enough.)

I chose to go the route of playground meaness, saying that so-and-so who pushes people around ate boogers. Didn't want to give the child nightmares.

Yay Brenda! You may be in debt, but at least it's good debt.

Hey, we're both right!

Among the Romanian peasantry, Vlad Ţepeş was remembered as a just prince who defended his people from foreign aggression, whether those foreigners were Turkish invaders or German merchants. He is also remembered as a champion of the common man against the oppression of the boyars.

However, despite the more positive interpretation, the Romanian oral tradition also remembers Vlad as an exceptionally cruel and often capricious ruler....Outside of Romanian folklore the reputation of Vlad Ţepeş is considerably darker...Impalement was Vlad's favourite method of torture but was by no means his only one. The list of tortures he is alleged to have employed is extensive: [whitefonting]

An old Romanian story says that one could even leave a bag of gold in the middle of the street, then return and pick it up the next day, as people were so afraid to commit crimes during his reign due to these horrific means of torture and capital punishment.

No one was immune to Vlad the Impaler's attentions. His victims included women and children, peasants and great lords, ambassadors from foreign powers and merchants. Nevertheless, the vast majority of his European victims came from the merchants and boyars of Transylvania and his own country, Wallachia.

This would make a neat tattoo, if you ignored the history: [link]

[The Order of the Dragon (German: Drachenorden; Hungarian: Sárkány Lovagrend; Latin: Societas Draconistrarum) was an order of selected nobles modeled on the Order of Saint George of Hungary. The order was founded in 1408 by Sigismund, King of Hungary, and his second wife Barbara Cilli. The defeated dragon is a symbol of the destruction of heresy. The Order flourished in Germany and Italy. Members of the Order were known as draconists. So I guess it's not just about Vlad.]

Sue - I owe you email. I got it. just unorganized right now.

Hey, we're both right!

Cool!

Oooohhhh....thunderstorm!!!

No probs, msbelle. I know form unorganized. I just found out today that the houseguest I was expecting next Friday is arriving day after tomorrow.Yikes! I missed a memo somewhere.

Thank god my house is reasonably presentable, even if the DR is half painted.