I mean culturally, women as a whole are not allowed or encouraged to take up space. Individual women might well take up space, and proudly, but that doesn't prove that it's culturally acceptable for women in general to do so. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

I think "not allowed" is overbroad (no pun). It's been legally allowed for a long time, and I think it's been culturally allowed for a couple decades.

How is Serena Williams not allowed her physicality?

I think "not allowed" is overbroad (no pun). It's been legally allowed for a long time, and I think it's been culturally allowed for a couple decades.

I disagree. t edit About the cultural aspect. Yes, fair point, there is no law that makes it illegal for women to occupy physical space. But I don't think that anyone really thinks that there is.

How is Serena Williams not allowed her physicality?

Have you read how she's frequently described by sports journalists? It's common that her size is mentioned, and in terms that make her seem like an anomaly. How often does that happen with male tennis players?

Serena Williams is a freak. Awesome, but freakish.

Look around on the subway, and see who's taking up more than their share of space. Hint: It's not the ladies.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Wait, what?

Look around on the subway, and see who's taking up more than their share of space.

Oh, my god, the legs. CLOSE YOUR DAMN LEGS.

Oh, my god, the legs. CLOSE YOUR DAMN LEGS.

Hahaha. That was my first thought exactly.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Wait, what?

Whenever Person A tries to make a generalized point about a group of people with a common characteristic, Person B invariably comes in and says "No, *I* know a woman from Cuba, and SHE loves to break-dance, so clearly you are wrong about Cuban dance!"

Information about many people is data; information about one data point is just an anecdote and not therefore representative of any group.

David can say, "Well, msbelle takes up plenty of space and she's a small person physically, so therefore your supposition is incorrect."

But saying that one female human seems -- to him -- to take up a lot of psychic space does not mean that women, by and large, are not encouraged to take up space.

I agree with Teppy. Women are socially not supposed to take up space, physically or psychologically. When they do, it's often noted like it is with Serena Williams. I don't think when it is noted it is always done pejoratively, but it is unusual enough that it does get noted. Just like connie being labelled as "strong" because she accepts her personal space and behaves with confidence. Not a bad label, but noted for its uniqueness.

One of the most frustrating things I see around here is young college-age girls on the bus who have old/odd/possibly merely friendly men start talking to them and the girls feel compelled to have conversations they don't want. True, some people feel that any conversation is preferable to reading a book/sitting in silent though, but it's much less common for a guy on his own to have conversations forced upon them than a girl.

Courtesy wars with the right to personal space, and too many times girls are told they're rude when they just want to be left alone.

Is anyone else having problems with gmail right now?

ITA with Steph.

Have you read how she's frequently described by sports journalists? It's common that her size is mentioned, and in terms that make her seem like an anomaly. How often does that happen with male tennis players?

Not only that, but I've heard rumors about her that I think are an attempt to punish her for being, well, her.