Giles: I jump out of the circle, jump back in, and, and, shake my gourd. Buffy: Hey, I think I know this ritual. The ancient shamans were next called upon to do the Hokey-Pokey and to turn themselves around.

'Dirty Girls'


Experimental TV: Cable Drama  

This thread is an experiment to discern the Buffistas' interests in television discussion. It will be closed on June 1st, 2007, after which our community will engage in creative discourse about the future direction of our boards. This is the thread for cable aired drama. All discussion must be in whitefont, with the name of the show upfront, for 24 hours after the show airs, presumably in the US. No future spoilers in thread (take those to the spoiler thread for serious ones or spoilers light for casting type info).


esse - Apr 18, 2007 2:02:40 pm PDT #11 of 129
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

I thought it was Dahlia, not Delilah?

From what I understand of the context, Wayne came into it later in life, not from family like Dahlia did.

I love how Dahlia feels everything, and is capable of expressing those feelings so well. Its a quality you don't see often in television characters--the ability to tell the straight truth because it's needed, even when (and perhaps especially when) it hurts.


JZ - Apr 18, 2007 2:13:38 pm PDT #12 of 129
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

You're totally right. My brain got crossed 'cause of the daughter nicknamed DiDi, plus the sleep dep. Going back to correct it now.


Theodosia - Apr 18, 2007 2:18:54 pm PDT #13 of 129
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

I missed the first episode (eventually they'll reshow it when I can remember to catch it!) so I'm still missing a bunch of background -- I thought Wayne was also Traveller-by-birth. I'm not even sure you can marry into Travellers or Rom in general.


esse - Apr 18, 2007 3:10:13 pm PDT #14 of 129
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

Well, Travelers and Romany are unrelated. And I would cite where I was getting that information, but I can't find transcripts online and it's one in the morning, so maybe tomorrow.


JZ - Apr 18, 2007 3:16:04 pm PDT #15 of 129
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

Here's the marriage traditions page of a Roma website run by a leader in the Bay Area Roma community:

[link]

About Roma/non-Roma marriage, he says:

He or she is expected to marry someone within their particular tribe and most Roma conform by marrying within their group. Even with respect to other Roma, permissible marriage choices may be restricted. This is a way of maintaining tribal and social purity. If a Roma male marries a gadji, his community may eventually accept her, provided that she adopts the Romani way of life. But it is a worse violation of the marimé code for a Roma female to marry a gadjo, because Roma women are the guarantors for the survival of the population. In the case of a mixed marriage, many tribes consider the children Roma only if the father is Roma.

eta: I just googled "Irish Traveller marriage" and, from the first 20 or so results, it looks like the Travellers are much more hostile to exogamy than the Roma, to such an extent that a huge percentage of the Google results point to medical journal articles studying genetic anomalies in the Travellers due to almost exclusive marriage within clans.

Here's a Traveller's own perspective on it.

And, googling more, there's... not much about marriage traditions except some brief asides in papers about other subjects that note that people who marry outside tend to fall away from the culture so it's discouraged, and that the most common marriages outside the clans tend to be with Scottish Travellers and Roma, i.e., other nomads.


Theodosia - Apr 18, 2007 3:32:08 pm PDT #16 of 129
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

Huh, I thought Travellers were Irish Rom. Off to Wikipedia, I guess!


Sean K - Apr 18, 2007 3:37:45 pm PDT #17 of 129
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

I'm LOVING this show. THere were distractions last monday, so I missed some big chunks of the last ep, though I caught enough that there were some laugh until I cried bits.

This show is remarkable. It's very clearly about the web of lies that so often seems to make up the world, and what it actually true among that. I think what the writers are setting up is a situation where even though the Malloys are the ones most actively fabricating their existence in Eden Falls, everyone else but them is hiding much more expansive lies.

Also, in re: Theo's question about Wayne -- he's half traveller. They have not (that I've caught) explained which of Wayne's parents were legit, and what his full back story is, nor have they explained how Wayne managed to get permission to marry Dahlia (except by implication that Dahlia's dad liked Wayne more than even his own son, and wanted somebody compotent to run the family after he was gone).


esse - Apr 18, 2007 3:44:37 pm PDT #18 of 129
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

They have not (that I've caught) explained which of Wayne's parents were legit, and what his full back story is, nor have they explained how Wayne managed to get permission to marry Dahlia (except by implication that Dahlia's dad liked Wayne more than even his own son, and wanted somebody compotent to run the family after he was gone).

Thanks, Sean, that's what I was thinking of.

Irish Travellers distinguish themselves from the settled communities of the countries in which they live by their own language and customs. Shelta (also known as the Cant) is the traditional language of Travellers but they also speak English with a distinct accent and mannerisms. The historical origins of Travellers as a group has been a subject of dispute. Some argue that the Irish Travellers are descended from another nomadic people called the Tarish. It was once widely believed that Travellers were descended from landowners who were made homeless in Oliver Cromwell's military campaign in Ireland and in the 1840s famine, but evidence shows that they have dwelt in Ireland since at least the Middle Ages. >[link]

And Slate explained it nicely here: [link]


sj - Apr 19, 2007 6:35:06 am PDT #19 of 129
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

JZ. I think you summed up everything I love about The Riches.


sumi - Apr 22, 2007 4:04:06 pm PDT #20 of 129
Art Crawl!!!

Robin Hood: I really thought based on the previews that showed Sir Guy all strung up that this was going to be an episode that would really grow from the excellent 2nd to last scene last week but sadly, it fell flat for me. I'm not sure why.