I haven't rewatched the episode yet, so help me out here... what was Dean's wish, supposedly? For his mom to be alive? I don't think it could have been just a generic "let me be happy" wish, because I really don't think he was all that happy in that AU. Nothing meaningful to do with his life, Dad's still dead, Sam not only doesn't speak to him, but actively doesn't like him, and he seems to be sort of possibly a petty crook (stealing Sam's ATM card)/borderline alcoholic. I know once Dean came back to reality he said he was tempted to stay there, but I'm not entirely sure why.
I'm very sorry if she tipped off anyone about your cunningly concealed herd of cows.
Simon ,'Safe'
Boxed Set, Vol. IV: It's always suicide-mission this, save-the-planet that.
A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
Morgana - May 03, 2007 10:01:28 pm PDT #994 of 10001
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber
Cass - May 03, 2007 10:48:17 pm PDT #995 of 10001
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.
I know once Dean came back to reality he said he was tempted to stay there, but I'm not entirely sure why.Well Mom was alive, Dad was dead but peacefully, and Sam didn't like him so much but he was happy in his way and with an alive Jess...
Even with Dean not being happy, I think he was tempted because everyone else kinda was. And Dean pushes the immediate gratification button a lot in life but I don't see him expecting long-term, real happiness for himself.
Matt the Bruins fan - May 03, 2007 11:00:34 pm PDT #996 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
I think Dean's fondest wish was Mary not having died. Without that, John never begins hunting, and all else proceeds as we saw.
Cass - May 03, 2007 11:26:26 pm PDT #997 of 10001
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.
Oh definitely.
I am just trying to think about why he was tempted to stay once he knew it wasn't real. And it was the Not Real that I think made him go back. But the temptation, to me, was that while Dean wasn't happy, the people he would kill or die for were happy.
Beverly - May 04, 2007 4:03:23 am PDT #998 of 10001
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.
I'm going to have to watch it again to have a better grasp of it, but I think his wish was actually that the fire never happened, that the demon never came. The rest was his idea of how their lives would have proceeded--white picket fence normal. I agree that his perception of himself as an underachiever skating by on charrm, with a tenuous grip on ethics was a glimpse of how he undervalues himself in regard to the rest of his family. And that at some level, he's still taking on blame for things going wrong, even in his perfect dream world.
I absolutely loved all the wee Jensen photographs sprinkled throughout the house, and I really didn't notice any wee Jared ones, if there were any. 'Twas akin to my glee at photos of Mickey Rooney as a jockey, stills from National Velvet, in Henry Dailey's trophy case in The Black Stallion.
Watching with Buffistas last night was the greatest. We had a few folks who were just there to watch the flail and squee, but I think we have a convert of a first-time watcher. It was great to get to meet Ailleann, and to have other people in the room who just got it.
I'm still going to have to watch it again. Maybe more than once!
smonster - May 04, 2007 4:19:16 am PDT #999 of 10001
We won’t stop until everyone is gay.
I believe there was a wee-ish Jared one, of him in a graduation robe holding a plaque or something.
Bev! See you soon! Remind me that I have something for you!
sumi - May 04, 2007 4:29:43 am PDT #1000 of 10001
Art Crawl!!!
Yes, I think that there was a high school graduation picture of Jared.
BTW, I love that in Dean's imagination his mom has garden gnomes. (Naturally, when I saw them I thought that they were evil. And possibly concealing cameras.)
Beverly - May 04, 2007 4:30:08 am PDT #1001 of 10001
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.
Something bemuses me. Dean was constructing the world he expected if the demon never came. So, if Sam grew up the typical suburban kid, played soccer, took first prize at the science fair, was well-known and well thought of at school and in and around Lawrence, would he have been the guy at Stanford that Jess was attracted to?
I tend to think that it was his rough edges, the hint of darkness and a sort of confidence, combined with his deep concern for others and a wish to belong that made Jess notice him.
Well, that, and the fact that otherwise she'd have pretty much had to date the basketball team or shorter men. That's a tall woman.
I understand that the world Dean saw was his construct of "happy" for Sam and his mom, if not really for himself. But I think he ignored or failed to consider realities in his construct.
smonster! You should have been here last night! But we'll be moseying over to the hotel as soon as people are mobile and sufficiently caffeinated.
sumi - May 04, 2007 4:31:57 am PDT #1002 of 10001
Art Crawl!!!
Oh, and sadly the director's cut for next week's SPN isn't up -- but there is one for Smallville that features Super!Helo -- and seriously - one of the shots is EXACTLY the shot that appeared in the previouslies for BSG 5million times.
Ailleann - May 04, 2007 6:56:19 am PDT #1003 of 10001
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
I'm more ::flail:: than coherent right now, so I'll probably repeat some people...
What killed me the most, I think, other than the manly tears at Dad's graveside, was the swiftness of the decision to sacrifice, to surrender his happiness for all of those lives, and all the potential future lives. There wasn't a lot of gnashing and rending, just a little moment of "Man, why does it have to be me?"
I agree with whoever said that Dean is maybe in an unfortunate headspace for what may be coming.
In conclusion, oh, Dean...
The Manly Ackles Tears converted Zenkitty, we think. And frankly, who can blame her? Also, the non-SPN fans were surprised at the high quantity of actual flailing. (I thought I was being subtle...)