I thought a shortened version of that, Plei-- from my LJ:

So in Dean's dream world, he was a dick to Sam growing up, seems to be a little bit of a lush, he and Sam aren't that close, and John is still dead (though he did have a peaceful death)? Interesting.

t snip

Ah ha. Not a dream, just the results of a wish. I wonder if either of them really believe that?

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We now have 3 Deans: Real!Dean that we see, the Dean that he imagines himself to be in the hallucination, and the Dean he would have been in reality if the hallucination had been real.

The imagined Dean is the one he himself constructs, and is by far the least appealing of the three: he's a fuckup who steals his brother's ATM, has little sense of family loyalty (I think), and isn't particularly close with his family. Also, no higher education. But he's still charming enough to win a nice girl.

It's an interesting image he has of himself, and really reinforces the Dean-as-mother trope. He's utterly invested his self-worth in what he can give to others--family and/or strangers. If he's not giving, saving, hunting, he's not really of any value to anyone, that he can see.

It's actually really sad. Thankfully most of the time Dean doesn't spend much time dwelling on it. But when he does, we get the Manly tears of doom, which I much Prefer to the Emo Single Tear.

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I haven't rewatched the episode yet, so help me out here... what was Dean's wish, supposedly? For his mom to be alive? I don't think it could have been just a generic "let me be happy" wish, because I really don't think he was all that happy in that AU. Nothing meaningful to do with his life, Dad's still dead, Sam not only doesn't speak to him, but actively doesn't like him, and he seems to be sort of possibly a petty crook (stealing Sam's ATM card)/borderline alcoholic. I know once Dean came back to reality he said he was tempted to stay there, but I'm not entirely sure why.

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I know once Dean came back to reality he said he was tempted to stay there, but I'm not entirely sure why.

Well Mom was alive, Dad was dead but peacefully, and Sam didn't like him so much but he was happy in his way and with an alive Jess...

Even with Dean not being happy, I think he was tempted because everyone else kinda was. And Dean pushes the immediate gratification button a lot in life but I don't see him expecting long-term, real happiness for himself.

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I think Dean's fondest wish was Mary not having died. Without that, John never begins hunting, and all else proceeds as we saw.

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Oh definitely.

I am just trying to think about why he was tempted to stay once he knew it wasn't real. And it was the Not Real that I think made him go back. But the temptation, to me, was that while Dean wasn't happy, the people he would kill or die for were happy.

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I'm going to have to watch it again to have a better grasp of it, but I think his wish was actually that the fire never happened, that the demon never came. The rest was his idea of how their lives would have proceeded--white picket fence normal. I agree that his perception of himself as an underachiever skating by on charrm, with a tenuous grip on ethics was a glimpse of how he undervalues himself in regard to the rest of his family. And that at some level, he's still taking on blame for things going wrong, even in his perfect dream world.

I absolutely loved all the wee Jensen photographs sprinkled throughout the house, and I really didn't notice any wee Jared ones, if there were any. 'Twas akin to my glee at photos of Mickey Rooney as a jockey, stills from National Velvet, in Henry Dailey's trophy case in The Black Stallion.

Watching with Buffistas last night was the greatest. We had a few folks who were just there to watch the flail and squee, but I think we have a convert of a first-time watcher. It was great to get to meet Ailleann, and to have other people in the room who just got it.

I'm still going to have to watch it again. Maybe more than once!

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I believe there was a wee-ish Jared one, of him in a graduation robe holding a plaque or something.

Bev! See you soon! Remind me that I have something for you!

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Yes, I think that there was a high school graduation picture of Jared.

BTW, I love that in Dean's imagination his mom has garden gnomes. (Naturally, when I saw them I thought that they were evil. And possibly concealing cameras.)

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Something bemuses me. Dean was constructing the world he expected if the demon never came. So, if Sam grew up the typical suburban kid, played soccer, took first prize at the science fair, was well-known and well thought of at school and in and around Lawrence, would he have been the guy at Stanford that Jess was attracted to?

I tend to think that it was his rough edges, the hint of darkness and a sort of confidence, combined with his deep concern for others and a wish to belong that made Jess notice him.

Well, that, and the fact that otherwise she'd have pretty much had to date the basketball team or shorter men. That's a tall woman.

I understand that the world Dean saw was his construct of "happy" for Sam and his mom, if not really for himself. But I think he ignored or failed to consider realities in his construct.

smonster! You should have been here last night! But we'll be moseying over to the hotel as soon as people are mobile and sufficiently caffeinated.

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