have you seen Out of Time and Combat, yet?

Funny you should ask. Those were two of the episodes that caused me to roll my eyes.

In both cases: Out of Time... NOOO you can't kill yourself, it's wrong. Okay, nevermind, I'll help .

Combat... No! I won't let you commit suicide by weevil. Okay, nevermind. Go forth and be chomped. Plus? Letting that happen means dude doesn't have to actually pay for his crimes.

Now, were I in the same situations, I'd likely have done the same thing, but I wouldn't have struggled with a moral dilemma and then instantly folded .

Also, there are too many cases of NO! You can't go because you are too involve, not experienced enough, defying orders, taking time away from important stuff . But seconds later Nevermind, welcome aboard or go forth and do what you want .

I have no idea why this is bugging me at all, except that I really like the show and want it to be written more intelligently.

Or were you talking about Owen?

I was speaking of Owen's brush with three dimensionality in those eps.

Ah. Sorry for the unrelated rant.

I did like his connectedness in both those episodes and I think both the character and actor have good range. Which makes the head-shaky 'who is he with now?' thing all the more disappointing.

Does he get stronger as we go along?

I've heard great comments about Ianto in season 2 but not much about Owen.

Finally saw the ep. First thought, I felt like the scene between Jack and Gwen was forced. Maybe it's just that I don't like her, but I never saw any real chemistry between them. At least not any more that Jack showed with every animate object. And I really hated that that scene made me feel like Ianto was his second choice.

Words cannot describe how much I loved this episode, especially Jack and Ianto. And Ianto alone, his reactions were priceless. And I was very amused when he got out the stopwatch.

Is it wrong that I laughed like a drain when Jack said "you went to murder rehab?"

Could there have been MORE innuendo? I don't think so. the only joke they didn't make was on Torchwood

And the final line in the first scene, "Thirsty now" was very (deliberately?) Spike like.

random thoughts, will probably watch again. This one made me all tingly with the hottness of JM and JB. whew!

Well, that's the thing with Jack. Ianto's best hope is that he's second choice (to the Doctor, whom Ianto seems to fully understand is Jack's ideal), but in all likelihood, he's bound to be umpteenth choice to all the other sexual opportunities that wander by Jack.

Ianto as the persevering housewife to the philandering adventurer is not the role I want for him.

Anyway, yeah, Ianto's reactions make the episode. I sometimes feel like he's a better POV character than Gwen.

Yes, I agree. But then, I don't like Gwen. Her "heart" causes her to make bad choices that put people in danger. Often. OTOH, she is willing to put herself on the line for the team, and there's something to be said for that.

Oh, and I figured out why the Jack/Gwen scene bothered me. I thought that he saw Gwen as more of a little sister figure, not as a romantic interest.

Ianto's best hope is that he's second choice (to the Doctor, whom Ianto seems to fully understand is Jack's ideal),

yes, that was a bit sadmaking when Ianto said "are you going back to him"

Yup, and even Jack's response "I came back for you," was tempered by "All of you," robbing Ianto of the tacit acknowledgment of their relationship by the team.

I'm a bit more optimistic for Ianto than you are, Liese. I will be surprised if they paint Jack as that sort of a heel.

If he is indeed the housewife I think he's one Jack keeps coming back to.

Also, while I'm being difficult, I didn't get PoV character from Ianto in this ep.

Hmph. Difficult!

No, I hope you're right, really. I enjoy their budding relationship and the character development that allows it.

As far as POV goes, I just sometimes feel like Gwen is inexplicable. She was thrown in this situation, but she sometimes commits the most egregious offenses. Probably from her trying to straddle the line between Ordinary Life and Torchwood Life, and not really knowing where the boundaries should fall.

Ianto is such a secondary character that it would be difficult for him to actually be POV, but I think it's easier to see through his eyes from time to time.