I was speaking of Owen's brush with three dimensionality in those eps.

Ah. Sorry for the unrelated rant.

I did like his connectedness in both those episodes and I think both the character and actor have good range. Which makes the head-shaky 'who is he with now?' thing all the more disappointing.

Does he get stronger as we go along?

I've heard great comments about Ianto in season 2 but not much about Owen.

Finally saw the ep. First thought, I felt like the scene between Jack and Gwen was forced. Maybe it's just that I don't like her, but I never saw any real chemistry between them. At least not any more that Jack showed with every animate object. And I really hated that that scene made me feel like Ianto was his second choice.

Words cannot describe how much I loved this episode, especially Jack and Ianto. And Ianto alone, his reactions were priceless. And I was very amused when he got out the stopwatch.

Is it wrong that I laughed like a drain when Jack said "you went to murder rehab?"

Could there have been MORE innuendo? I don't think so. the only joke they didn't make was on Torchwood

And the final line in the first scene, "Thirsty now" was very (deliberately?) Spike like.

random thoughts, will probably watch again. This one made me all tingly with the hottness of JM and JB. whew!

Well, that's the thing with Jack. Ianto's best hope is that he's second choice (to the Doctor, whom Ianto seems to fully understand is Jack's ideal), but in all likelihood, he's bound to be umpteenth choice to all the other sexual opportunities that wander by Jack.

Ianto as the persevering housewife to the philandering adventurer is not the role I want for him.

Anyway, yeah, Ianto's reactions make the episode. I sometimes feel like he's a better POV character than Gwen.

Yes, I agree. But then, I don't like Gwen. Her "heart" causes her to make bad choices that put people in danger. Often. OTOH, she is willing to put herself on the line for the team, and there's something to be said for that.

Oh, and I figured out why the Jack/Gwen scene bothered me. I thought that he saw Gwen as more of a little sister figure, not as a romantic interest.

Ianto's best hope is that he's second choice (to the Doctor, whom Ianto seems to fully understand is Jack's ideal),

yes, that was a bit sadmaking when Ianto said "are you going back to him"

Yup, and even Jack's response "I came back for you," was tempered by "All of you," robbing Ianto of the tacit acknowledgment of their relationship by the team.

I'm a bit more optimistic for Ianto than you are, Liese. I will be surprised if they paint Jack as that sort of a heel.

If he is indeed the housewife I think he's one Jack keeps coming back to.

Also, while I'm being difficult, I didn't get PoV character from Ianto in this ep.

Hmph. Difficult!

No, I hope you're right, really. I enjoy their budding relationship and the character development that allows it.

As far as POV goes, I just sometimes feel like Gwen is inexplicable. She was thrown in this situation, but she sometimes commits the most egregious offenses. Probably from her trying to straddle the line between Ordinary Life and Torchwood Life, and not really knowing where the boundaries should fall.

Ianto is such a secondary character that it would be difficult for him to actually be POV, but I think it's easier to see through his eyes from time to time.

I do like Ianto very much, but I don't feel I know near enough about him to use him as PoV. How does one get to be tea-boy for Torchwood--but a tea boy who's a) snogging the boss and b) able to smuggle his robotic GF in unnoticed (although I have wondered about his timeline with Jack)?

As for Gwen, I think the offenses can be seen as extensions of her just being thrown in, but she was allowed to do too much offscreen, and so I'm alienated (NPI) from her now.

I saw the Torchwood - was it cut up alot? Life on Mars is getting a "director's cut" on demand. . . I wonder if they'll do that with Torchwood?

ION - TVshowsondvd have pictures of the menus for the season 3 bsg dvds.

(Did I do that? I am going too quickly from posting on boards to email and vice-versa.)

Anyway, thoroughly enjoyed season 1.1 and hoping it comes up On Demand soon so I can tape it and watch and rewatch.

IO.O.N., finished up the Farscape rewatch with the new convert. so sad. Peacekeeper Wars this time around you could pull out what might have been indivual episodes from what was shown . . .and why, oh why, didn't they use the real Farscape music? (Why didn't it hit me so much 1st time around?)

Also, a scratched season 1 starburst collection went for (I think) $176.00 on ebay this weekend and people are paying comparable amounts for the glitched 2 disk versions. Craxy.