I'll have to finish my rewatch, but wasn't Jake's motivation not only, only one of us can get out, but the conviction that he was the stronger of the two, and thus the most likely to be able to kill the demon?

P-C, honestly curious - does the way that South Asian characters are portrayed in popular culture ever bother you?

Yes, because they're always portrayed as convenience store owners and never as motel owners, which is closer to the truth.

But seriously, I don't think I've even seen that many South Asian characters in popular culture. They're usually convenience store owners or doctors, and I do like when they're not, but I don't make a fuss when they are. At least Indian actors are getting work, right? And, yes, I think that if SPN introduced an Indian character and then killed him off, I would be a little miffed, but it's the nature of the beast with this show, as someone mentioned.

wasn't Jake's motivation not only, only one of us can get out

Hmm. So, if Ava's dead, they can all leave. Is the assumption on the part of the YED that whoever wins will want to stay? So Sam's a bad choice because he wants to save everyone and leave, and Jake's a little less bad because he is willing to kill to leave. Still, much with the leaving.

At least, that's the conviction I felt. Not sure about whether he was then going to go on a rampage against the darker forces (which makes me think--I'd love to see the boys create a Hunter as a byproduct of their weekly adventures).

(which makes me think--I'd love to see the boys create a Hunter as a byproduct of their weekly adventures)

It would be most excellent if a family member of a victim they've dealt with would show up later as a hunter.

but the conviction that he was the stronger of the two, and thus the most likely to be able to kill the demon?

I read it that way. Probably something that the YED told him (even though he's a LYING LIAR WHO LIES) (or was it someone else?!?) convinced him that he would have to do this, and that Sam would be an unfortunate casualty.

(BTW, I'm so proud of Sam for holding strong in the face of this. I think that's all the answer he needs as to the quality of his character. (Because he's not dead, no sir.))

Equality is all well and good, but I believe that is important to keep overdone tropes in mind when creating fictional characters. I see the way that characters are handled within a cultural and historical context. There is a long history of queer characters being punished for their sexuality by death, and that death being associated with a sexual act. So when the only queer character we've ever seen on SPN kills her girlfriend by touching her, it pings me enough to mention it.

Exactly this.

I was pinged by the "dead lesbian" trope, but not Jake. I reacted to Lily's death by rolling my eyes back in my head and muttering, "Oh, show. Honestly."

I don't know if Jake would have pinged me if it weren't for Lily and to a lesser extent Gordon. If I look at it without considering the rest of this ep or Hunted, I would think/agree that Jake was written fairly race neutrally, and the actor just happened to be black.

However, Jake didn't happen in a vacuum. We already had Gordon, who raised some flags, and then the Dead Lesbian/Lesbian sex=death was followed by a black character being superstrong and untrustworthy. I don't think it was intended to be negative or sterotypical, but it did make me roll my eyes and wish they had looked at the total picture more carefully.

It would be most excellent if a family member of a victim they've dealt with would show up later as a hunter.

Which would produce the most irritation for the other brother...a chibi!Hunter who's imprinted on Dean, or one imprinted on Sam?

We already had Gordon, who raised some flags

Remind me which ones these were again?

I didn't realize "blacks are strong" was a stereotype.

I didn't either. But now that it's been pointed out, I can think of other examples.

I actually thought Jake was going against stereotype, because I think soldiers are usually portrayed as white.

My first thought was that they were finally playing soldiers more accurately because minorities have, typically, been sent to the front lines in greater numbers than whites starting with Vietnam.

Remind me which ones these were again?

The Nazi speech, and the end scene with Gordon on his knees surrounded by white cops (though I think one of the cops was black), and there was something else.

IIRC, it didn't ping me as much as it did some at the time, but as part of a pattern, it gets more troubling, at least for me.

I'm a little muddled about what the YED actually wanted (maybe that's because I spent a good bit of the episode saying NO! ASH! and Sammy!) but I'm not sure I believe that Sam's Mom knew the YED, I'm not inclined to believe that he's going to tell the truth, just manipulate Sam.

At first I thought the YED killed Lilly, but that was really Ava, Sam made the assumption that the YED killed her to keep her from leaving but that wasn't true. Ava seemed to be acting like she was in a cage match situation, which I believe but I don't get why she turned to the Dark Side.

Hopefully some of this confusion will be cleared up next week.