From the link that bon bon posted, I had forgotten that he said he would leave the country if Bush won the election. It's a little odd that he is saying the same thing now.

It never ceases to boggle me the perfectness (and ideological) standards to which popular culture holds parents.

Expecting parents to not insult and otherwise hurt their children is not holding parents to a standard of perfection.

It never ceases to boggle me that people would undoubtedly call the authorities on Alec Baldwin if he hit his child -- even if it were an isolated incident (it was just the one time, baby, and you made me do it, you just make me so *mad* sometimes) -- but they're okay making excuses for him when he verbally damages his child.

Seriously, a rant like that is never an isolated incident. It's too long and vitriolic.

Seriously -- that's not always true, even if though was true in your experience. Do I think it's likely in this Baldwin thing? Actually, I do

I really really hope for his daughter's sake that you're right.

Joe Francis's life just keeps getting worse.

[link]

He's been sentenced to 35 days for the contempt charges. Yesterday he was charged with sexual battery and will be arraigned May 22 and could face 6 months in jail and a $2000 fine. But, wait! there's more! He has to be in Nevada on May 22 because he's been indicted on federal charges of tax evasion and could face 10 years in prison and $500,000 fine.

::chairdances::

Slimeball.

Seriously -- that's not always true, even if though was true in your experience. Do I think it's likely in this Baldwin thing? Actually, I do

I really really hope for his daughter's sake that you're right.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, Teppy. If I had to guess, I'd think that you were right, and that this may be part of Baldwin's parenting style and not an isolated incident.

I was then pointing out that I just can't know what this was, because I don't know them. That said, I don't know many good parents who haven't sucked out loud at some (isolated) points in their kids lives.

It never ceases to boggle me the perfectness (and ideological) standards to which popular culture holds parents.

Expecting parents to not insult and otherwise hurt their children is not holding parents to a standard of perfection.

No, indeed, and that's not a an assertion I have made. I was responding to the general track of Cindy's notions about parenting, and have remained blissfully ignorant of the influence of Baldwins on all aspects of life. It's best not to take a tangential comment in the general flow of conversation as intended to reflect directly on your own experience, because misinterpretation is bound to occur. I think if you were not in such high dudgeon, you would not have accused me of "making excuses" for somebody I don't know from a hole in the wall.

In other news, it looks like Joe Francis is having some zillion-dollar chickens come home to roost. Power to the chickens!

I've seen plenty of children hit by their parents in public, with nobody calling the cops. I've also seen plenty of children yelled at by their parents in public, with nobody calling the cops. Disapproving frowns, yes, but if Baldwin butt-smacked or roughly grabbed his daughter and got arrested, the only reason would be because of his fame.

What's interesting to me is that Baldwin's rant is about how abused HE feels by the situation in the family. My understanding is that the divorce (still ongoing?) has been incredibly messy; he's probably as responsible for that as anyone, but still sees himself as a victim. Perhaps his daughter is deliberately manipulating him - certainly possible, even for an 11 year old NOT raised by immature and volatile adults. But even if she is yanking his chain, it's his job to be the parent, realize that she's yanking, and deal with it. He failed this time, and the way he's failing makes it likely that it's a problem for him in general.

I don't know many good parents who haven't sucked out loud at some (isolated) points in their kids lives.

It's just that sucking out loud, whether isolated or not, is on a continuum, I suppose. Snapping at your kid, calling them selfish, swearing at them -- it all seems way lower on the Sucking Out Loud scale if it's a sentence or two, compared with Alec Baldwin's rant, which was 3 paragraphs.

This is how I see it: "Johnny, you little shit, stop being so goddamned selfish," is insulting, but it's the verbal equivalent of a swat on the bottom. Baldwin's rant is like a punch in the face, followed by a good hard kick in the ribs.

Maybe it was an isolated incident for Baldwin, maybe we'll never know if it was, but in terms of sucking out loud, he's over on the Abusive Fuck side of the Sucking Out Loud scale.

I heard the whole thing, and I see it the same way Teppy does.

Yes, Tep. And everything I said in the post that prompted you to respond was in context of things I said earlier (that I was horrified by the 'pig' line; couldn't believe how long and hard he ranted, etc.). I'm not trying to excuse his behavior, at all. I listened and read with my mouth hanging open, feeling terribly for that little girl, and half hoping she'd be taken from both parents (if the mother did leak the recording).