Ack, JZ, that sucketh mightily.

I don't completely blame those women, because there's the myth out there of the civilizing influence of the womenfolk.

Perpetuated by pop culture, too. I can think of no clearer example of this than the movie City of Angels (Nicolas Cage version). Think about it -- he changed literally his entire existence for a woman.

And as women, that's what we're taught to dream about -- covertly, of course, but also overtly -- that a man will change (sometimes, change his entire life) for our redeeming love.

And that's a dangerous, dangerous myth.

And there's the fact that a lot of men will play into it for a while too.

I've known more than one man that was convinced his woman would change too. Nope, not gonna happen.

And there's the fact that a lot of men will play into it for a while too.

Yup.

t still bitter

What's that old chestnut? Men marry women hoping they won't change--women marry men hoping they will.

Creeps me right out, but I don't do relationships, so I don't think I get a vote.

I can't demand that you don't knowingly hurt me, but I have the right to want someone who won't.

I think, for me, the difference is between demand and ask. Might seem slight and semantic--sure I can ask. Demanding's too far.

I like the statement, even though it can be hard to live by. I've recently come round to making actual changes in friendships. It feels weird, putting in a rule with someone you've spoken to just about every week for the past...oh, 20 years, but I had to. Topic's been made verboten, and if she presses me on it, I just won't talk to her anymore.

you have an inalienable right to get what you want

Uh, doesn't it depend on what you want? Could be the extermination of the Serbs or something.

I don't think that there's really the cultural expectation that men will change us though. We tame the beast! Reader I married him!

SPQ wisdom: People don't change. They just get more the same.

Yeah, it goes back to the whole Beauty and the Beast archetype. Bastages

I change. I have changed because of people. As far as I know any concerted effort to change me has failed, but I change. It's why I keep going, because I'm not all of me yet.

Oh, JZ, how frustrating! I'm so sorry, hon. Enjoy snuggling and martinis!

I like the statement, even though it can be hard to live by.

Heh. Yeah, I'm not always awesome at following my own rules either. It's easier to be an asshole! I want you to do what I want, not just somebody! Sure, use me as a cudgel against that other woman! I don't like her either!