Oh, yeah, Holt is a big unschooling guru. The woman I know spoke at this conference last year and will be again this year. They're more on the sane side of the spectrum.

I think the Indigo Children thing is something to do wit the Celestine Prophecy. I am very unsure about that.

I think unschooling is one of those things that is very easy to do badly and really hard to do right and works for some and not for others even when it's done well. I don't know much abotu it specifically, but that seems to be the case with a lot of alternative education that sounds so wonderful in theory but is actually very difficult to implement effectively.

Eta: I know that some of my sister's motivation for exploring alternative education was that she felt she was badly served traditional schooling - not that she had bad teachers but just that the whole system of sitting in a class studying a set curriculum impeded her more than it helped her learn.

I think the Indigo Children thing is totally separate.

Unschooling isn't "not teaching at all." It's just not having a formal set curriculum. So if the kid is interested in, say, dinosaurs, you take him to the museum to see the fossils. While you're there, you'll probably see some other things that might spark his interest. You go to the library or the internet for information on dinosaurs. In all likelyhood, since every kid I've ever known has liked making lists, the kid will start making lists of different kinds of dinosaurs. Sorting them by period, by plant/meat eaters, by whether they walked on two feet or four feet, etc. Figuring out how much time passed between when different species lived. There's a whole ton of math skills in there, plus (obviously) science, geology, research skills, bunches of other stuff.

From what I've read, it seems like some people can make a real mess of it, but it can work with the right kid/parent/community combination.

I didn't realize that college instructors were "certified." Does that mean that she has her master's in whatever her field is?

(The woman in the article.)

So, there isn't a set curriculum but they plan based on what they think that their kids will be interested in?

Rousseau was noble savage. FWTW

I'm mixing my metaphors Frenchie philosophers!c

I think the expectation that the world is going to indulge your whims, and that you can make your own rules all the time, is a dangerous, and ultimately disappointing, one to encourage in your kids.

Yes. This. I was able to pursue my interests IN school and I don't think the educational system is so strict in this country that you can't still think creatively or be passionate about certain subjects. But admittedly, it's been a while since I've been in a school.

So, were these the kids of parents who didn't teach at all or the kids of parents who just waited to see what their kids were interested in?

It varies from parent to parent. The 14 year old I read about didn't read because he said he didn't want to learn so his mother (who'd unschooled all of her kids) didn't push it until he said he wanted to learn. To me, that's taking it a little too far. He did eventually learn to read, at least.

Which isn't exactly what "Indigo children" are about, as far as I know (which is admittedly, like, almost nothing).

Heh. I had a friend here who suggested I read about Indigo Children--she suspected Owen of being one.

So, there isn't a set curriculum but they plan based on what they think that their kids will be interested in?

Not what they think their kids will be interested in, but what the kids express interest in. Have lots of books and educational toys and just stuff around so that the kid will be exposed to lots of stuff, and see where the kid goes.

(I just finished reading How Children Fail by John Holt, so my brain is kind of in this mindspace now.) One thing that Holt mentions is that kids will learn a lot by just being involved in the stuff of everyday adult life. Let the kids see the bills and the budget and whatever, and let them figure out how much things like each additional degree on the thermostat costs. (When my sister and I were around 9 and 12, my mom would let us go through all the coupons and supermarket ads and figure out which brands and which size packages we should buy.)

Holt was a math teacher, so lots of the stuff he wrote focuses more on math than on other stuff.

Holt was a math teacher, so lots of the stuff he wrote focuses more on math than on other stuff.

I think I would have enjoyed math more if I had been exposed to more everyday concepts with it as a young child.

Now that I think about it, a whole lot of just the regular stuff my parents did in interacting with us was stuff that unschoolers advocate. We had a set of encyclopedias in the house, and frequently if I asked a question, the answer was, "Why don't you look it up, and let me know what it says?" Whenever we went out to a restaurant, my parents would hand us the bill to check that it was added up right and to figure out what the tip was. (We may have been the only six-year-olds who could figure out 15% tip in our heads.) When we were cooking or baking, my mom would ask us stuff like, "OK, if I'm supposed to have 3/4 of a cup of flour, but I'm doubling the recipe, how much should I use?" Not in a quizzing way, but just in a "Want to help?" way.

A lot of this drove my teachers nuts, though, when I got to the grade where I was supposed to learn how to add fractions or whatever, and I could do it with no problem, but not at all using the algorithm we were supposed to do it with.

My mother was very much like that too, Hil. She would ask me to read signs on the road, etc. Of course, then she would get annoyed when we would take a two hour car trip and I wouldn't stop reading the signs.

I think I would have enjoyed math more if I had been exposed to more everyday concepts with it as a young child.

This, definitely. I still get traumatized by the thought of having to do math in my head. I think I was in elementary school around the time they started teaching the "New Math" and while I've never known what the heck that meant, based on how it worked out for me, I don't think it was a good idea.