I gave her everything... jewels, beautiful dresses -- with beautiful girls in them.

Spike ,'Sleeper'


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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


Sean K - May 04, 2006 5:35:41 am PDT #9455 of 10000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

I saw it more of a reaction to what he talks about at the end, the fact that the Endless are really just anthropomorphs cooked up by humanity, and a focus on reason threatens their relevance. It's as if he quit so that he wouldn't be fired.

Also, I would say there's a large degree of Destruction having his job taken over by the scientific advances in warfare. Think of Oppenheimer's chosen quote after the first detonation -- "I am become Death, devourer of worlds."

Okay, so the quote mentions the wrong Endless, but the point remains. It's not just that Destruction would have been fired, humanity as a whole was (*is*) trying to become Destruction.

Why did Delight turn into Delirium?

Delight became Delirium because of some huge but unnamed change in the world, or in mortals at any rate

You don't see it? Consumerism. Among other things. We humans (as represented by the "advanced" Western-world-living among us, anyway) stopped taking joy and delight in that which was joyful and delightful in the world, and instead started chasing pleasure for its own sake, demanding more and more, and ever more again.

When that happened (or as it happened, it's not like it was a discrete event), we went insane and entered a delirium from which we never returned, and propably never will.


Dana - May 04, 2006 5:54:51 am PDT #9456 of 10000
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

Given how long ago Delight became Delirium, I'm not sure I buy that consumerism was the cause.


Sean K - May 04, 2006 6:00:02 am PDT #9457 of 10000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

Given how long ago Delight became Delirium, I'm not sure I buy that consumerism was the cause.

Your memory is working better than mine. How long ago did it happen?

And even though I singled out consumerism, I do think it was really more a whole series of events that mutated us and her, and consumerism is just bound up in all that, but you may wind up deflating my theory right here.


Dana - May 04, 2006 6:12:07 am PDT #9458 of 10000
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

I don't think it's ever been specified, but I always thought it was ages and ages and ages ago.


Matt the Bruins fan - May 04, 2006 6:29:47 am PDT #9459 of 10000
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I'm pretty sure she's appeared as Delirium in stories set in ancient Greece. In fact, the only story I can recall wherein she appeared as Delight was set before organic life developed on earth.


Sean K - May 04, 2006 6:41:36 am PDT #9460 of 10000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

In fact, the only story I can recall wherein she appeared as Delight was set before organic life developed on earth.

Shoots my idea all to hell. I'd then submit that we've been insane from the beginning, and we're what drove Delight 'round the bend.


Matt the Bruins fan - May 04, 2006 6:54:24 am PDT #9461 of 10000
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Well, there is a lot of storytelling ground to be mined between c. 4,000,000,000 B.C. and 1200 B.C. Death also apparently mellowed out and developed a sense of joy in that interval, though I don't know that the responsibility for that could be laid at Humanity's feet any more than what happened to Delight could.


P.M. Marc - May 04, 2006 6:55:10 am PDT #9462 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I'm going to Pull From My Bottom the notion that self-awareness changes Delight to Delirium.

Of course, that's my issues talking.

Speaking of which, damn, have I mentioned lately that I'm in mad love with the Wall? Have I? Because, yes. I am. Mad love.

Also, between Checkmate and Birds of Prey (and as Rucka writes the first and the second is, well, Birds of Prey, this is NOT a spoiler), I'd say all my desires for extreme girl/girl Ho!Yay are more than satisfied.

And Tep, Teen Titans? Hummina. Bring on the Hot n' Wrong. Damn. You're so right. Only, you know, if Spike were crossed with Faith.


Dana - May 04, 2006 6:55:51 am PDT #9463 of 10000
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

We also don't know when (P-C, don't look) the first Despair died, although I also got the impression that it was ages and ages ago. But after Delight became Delirium.


Hayden - May 04, 2006 6:58:19 am PDT #9464 of 10000
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

Responding to Dana: We know she died more than 80,000 (or something like that) years ago, because her death is what led the Endless to destroy the old, disrespectful Necropolis and create the new one. I don't have my facts straight, but I remember this from the Necropolis story in World's End.