"Shit, Bruce wants to talk about his EMOTIONS."

snerk. giggle. BWAH!

We're saying the same thing here, I think.

Not quite. I get the impression that there are times when the crew want him to take the damn cowl off and talk to them, especially the older members. I think you're correct for Cass and Tim, but not for Dick, Babs, and Selina. Which could just be an indication of how much more Bat he's become over the years.

All the Batbooks I've read haven't explicitly shown Bruce and Selina either getting into bed or out of bed, but I'm assuming they have had Teh Sex, yes?

Yeah, they've had Teh Sex.

Or so one would gather from Bruce coming to her apartment, her serving him coffee, then in the next panel, her waking up naked-but-for-a-blanket on the couch, (It's not a long couch. I don't understand why they didn't use the bed. He's 6'2". Yes, I'm still hung up on this.) two coffee cups on the table next to her, and a note from Bruce that he had to leave as you see the Batsignal in the background.

(Or from Bruce saying he had an early meeting as Bruce, so he'd just stay there. Which is I think what he said in the last issue of Catwoman.)

but he's still the same guy.

I think with the mask on he is selling the Bat persona. He's in character. With the cowl off in the Batcave, he's Mission Oriented. He becomes Batman to do his job. It's just the persona has been bleeding into his person for a long time now.

I don't buy it. Bruce became Batman the moment he saw his parents get shot. The Bat persona is the goal, the ideal, not an act.

I think with the mask on he is selling the Bat persona. He's in character. With the cowl off in the Batcave, he's Mission Oriented. He becomes Batman to do his job. It's just the persona has been bleeding into his person for a long time now.

Hmm. I don't think that's quite how Dixon means it, nor do I think your interpretation is really supported by the current canon, because it's pretty well established that Bruce Wayne is the persona, not Batman. It's more that occasionally, what's left of pre-parent-loss Bruce bleeds into Batman, tempering the Bat with a touch of humanity.

The Bat persona is the goal, the ideal, not an act.

Well, a persona isn't just an act. Everybody fronts. People build a collective set of behaviors and styles for different situations, whether it's at work, or with their parents or out partying. A well-integrated person will present the same face (more or less, with some changes in emphasis) in most situations. Poorly integrated people (like Bruce) do not.

Also, people often become their personas - some people wind up feeling trapped as The Party Girl, or The Geek or The Nice Guy. But becoming the Bat was also a conscious decision on his part - something to exploit.

Hmm. I don't think that's quite how Dixon means it, nor do I think your interpretation is really supported by the current canon, because it's pretty well established that Bruce Wayne is the persona, not Batman. It's more that occasionally, what's left of pre-parent-loss Bruce bleeds into Batman, tempering the Bat with a touch of humanity.

I can get behind that as well. I just dislike characterizations of him which don't allow for the obvious fracturing in his person. He's not all-Bat all the time. That wouldn't be interesting.

But I admit I'm ridiculously old school with Batman. I was thoroughly indoctrinated with "criminals are a cowardly lot" and the Scary Bat God origin leans a decidedly different way.

We're saying the same thing here, I think.

Not quite. I get the impression that there are times when the crew want him to take the damn cowl off and talk to them, especially the older members. I think you're correct for Cass and Tim, but not for Dick, Babs, and Selina. Which could just be an indication of how much more Bat he's become over the years.

Okay, fair point. I just meant that my perception was that the Batcrew understands that when Bruce takes off the cowl, he's making a deliberate choice/shift. However, for them, I just wonder how much of a shift they perceive.

All the Batbooks I've read haven't explicitly shown Bruce and Selina either getting into bed or out of bed, but I'm assuming they have had Teh Sex, yes?

Yeah, they've had Teh Sex.

Is it wrong of me to want fic with Bat/Cat sex where Bruce never takes off the cowl? Guh.

I think with the mask on he is selling the Bat persona. He's in character.

Like Tom says, there's nothing to sell. He *is* Teh Bat.

However, for them, I just wonder how much of a shift they perceive.

Cass and Tim, I'd go with not much. Dick and Babs (and, actually, Clark), who have pre-Jason experience with him I think perceive more of a shift, because they've experienced a more Bruce-like Bats, or have seen more of the soft, marshmallowy underside or something.

You really see that in any case where one of them has to deal with a reality shift that meant Bruce's parents were never shot.