I think with the mask on he is selling the Bat persona. He's in character. With the cowl off in the Batcave, he's Mission Oriented. He becomes Batman to do his job. It's just the persona has been bleeding into his person for a long time now.

Hmm. I don't think that's quite how Dixon means it, nor do I think your interpretation is really supported by the current canon, because it's pretty well established that Bruce Wayne is the persona, not Batman. It's more that occasionally, what's left of pre-parent-loss Bruce bleeds into Batman, tempering the Bat with a touch of humanity.

The Bat persona is the goal, the ideal, not an act.

Well, a persona isn't just an act. Everybody fronts. People build a collective set of behaviors and styles for different situations, whether it's at work, or with their parents or out partying. A well-integrated person will present the same face (more or less, with some changes in emphasis) in most situations. Poorly integrated people (like Bruce) do not.

Also, people often become their personas - some people wind up feeling trapped as The Party Girl, or The Geek or The Nice Guy. But becoming the Bat was also a conscious decision on his part - something to exploit.

Hmm. I don't think that's quite how Dixon means it, nor do I think your interpretation is really supported by the current canon, because it's pretty well established that Bruce Wayne is the persona, not Batman. It's more that occasionally, what's left of pre-parent-loss Bruce bleeds into Batman, tempering the Bat with a touch of humanity.

I can get behind that as well. I just dislike characterizations of him which don't allow for the obvious fracturing in his person. He's not all-Bat all the time. That wouldn't be interesting.

But I admit I'm ridiculously old school with Batman. I was thoroughly indoctrinated with "criminals are a cowardly lot" and the Scary Bat God origin leans a decidedly different way.

We're saying the same thing here, I think.

Not quite. I get the impression that there are times when the crew want him to take the damn cowl off and talk to them, especially the older members. I think you're correct for Cass and Tim, but not for Dick, Babs, and Selina. Which could just be an indication of how much more Bat he's become over the years.

Okay, fair point. I just meant that my perception was that the Batcrew understands that when Bruce takes off the cowl, he's making a deliberate choice/shift. However, for them, I just wonder how much of a shift they perceive.

All the Batbooks I've read haven't explicitly shown Bruce and Selina either getting into bed or out of bed, but I'm assuming they have had Teh Sex, yes?

Yeah, they've had Teh Sex.

Is it wrong of me to want fic with Bat/Cat sex where Bruce never takes off the cowl? Guh.

I think with the mask on he is selling the Bat persona. He's in character.

Like Tom says, there's nothing to sell. He *is* Teh Bat.

However, for them, I just wonder how much of a shift they perceive.

Cass and Tim, I'd go with not much. Dick and Babs (and, actually, Clark), who have pre-Jason experience with him I think perceive more of a shift, because they've experienced a more Bruce-like Bats, or have seen more of the soft, marshmallowy underside or something.

You really see that in any case where one of them has to deal with a reality shift that meant Bruce's parents were never shot.

No Astounishing for me. . . my store didn't get their shipment.

Re: Astonishing : Joss better know what the hell he's doing, cause I sure have no idea whether there's precedent for this sort of thing. Pretty cool, though.

Love Ex Machina so much. I want to get all the issues in one place so I can piece together the damn timeline.

Daredevil was great too.

Oh, and 100 Bullets was nice too. Very cool. I don't know whether anyone here reads it, but if I read it right, Graves programmed Dizzy to kill Shepherd using the "Croatoa" signal. Which fucking rocks. And, considering what Shepherd says at the end, I think there may be some more surprises in store.

ita, didn't you say you read some Runaways ? I picked it up this week cause it was an issue 1, though obviously not the very first issue. New storyline, I guess. It looked fun, teens with powers and such. And of course the trademark Vaughan humor. I'm totally a Vaughan fanboy. It looks worth reading, I guess, but I didn't get to know the characters enough yet.

I've read the first wee TPB, where the kids discover their parents' secret.

Re: Astonishing : Joss better know what the hell he's doing, cause I sure have no idea whether there's precedent for this sort of thing. Pretty cool, though.

Happened a few times in Star Trek (the newer versions, not TOS).