You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends.

Spike ,'Sleeper'


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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


Michele T. - Aug 06, 2003 8:39:30 pm PDT #715 of 10000
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi

Heh. This seems perhaps an inappropriate time to mention that I didn't like the ending.

Spoilery: I felt like Urkonn's being a baddie came out of left field, and, to be sure, it resonated for me with the way that Giles was (mis)used in the last season of BUFFY. I felt like, does every father/male teacher figure in the Slayer storyline *have* to turn out to be bad, or, at the best, get discarded?

Then again, it's been five million years since I read the whole thing starting from the beginning, and there may be things I missed.

I am relieved to know that Joss jossed himself, because I sat there after "Chosen" wondering how FRAY worked now.


CaBil - Aug 06, 2003 11:45:18 pm PDT #716 of 10000
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

The character in question wasn't evil, he just wasn't altruistic.

Interesting that this once again brings up one of the inherent tensions of the Slayer, between the hero and the soldier. Mel is struggling to be the hero, which was pretty far from her uncalled state, but it was still much closer to her original state than the soldier. The character in question did his action trying to evoke the soldier in Mel, but instead got the hero, probably much to Mel's own surprise.

Honestly, that surprise was one of the true surprises of the series. Virtually everything else was set up and foreshadowed, whereas the foreshadowing for this was suitably buried to keep it a true surprise.

Fact is, I don't think I'll be able to snag Karl for the next series.

Probably not. For people not in the know, Karl Moline is currently working for a company called Crossgen out of FL, which is experimenting in bringing back the 'bullpen', so that all of their writers and artists work in a single space. For those reasons, all of their creators are 'exclusive' to Crossgen, with a few negotiated exceptions. On the other hand, people should check out Karl's current title for Crossgen, Rte 666, a horror title in an alternative 1950s America.


DXMachina - Aug 07, 2003 2:52:19 am PDT #717 of 10000
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

On the title spreaed, the first two paragraphs have been inverted! It don't make no logical sense! Grr. (Arrgh.)

I didn't notice. I just assume you were going for disjointed thoughts. I don't think it'll throw people off that much. Just have them fix it for any reprintings. (That way my copy will be *extra* collectable...)

Michele: I didn't think it came out of left field so much, because I was bothered that it was the demons that sent Urkonn in the first place. Why would they go out of their way to aid the Slayer? You do make a fair point about the comparison with Giles (and Wesley, and the Watchers Council, and her Dad). However, my complaint would be more about Giles betraying Buffy, because there was far more trust built up over the years there, than Urkonn betraying Mel.


Steph L. - Aug 07, 2003 4:12:53 am PDT #718 of 10000
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Oh my! And the letters column was absolutely hilarious.

Well, Joss posted last night, so he'll likely never see this comment, but his last paragraph in the letters section -- "I write stories. Mostly about girls....and the Getting of Power," make me goosebumpy and teary, what with Chosen and all.

And I was totally bereft about Urkonn killing Loo. Because I *loved* Urkonn from the very start. He was my MAN, in a big motherfucking way. But, dude -- betrayal! Made me sad.

And also Harth kissing Mel -- freaked me out in 2 ways: (1) reminded me so very much of Faith kissing Buffy in "Enemies," because Harth and Mel are (roughly) a lot like Faith and Buffy; and (2) YIKES! No likey the bro-sis kissing!

I really dig Mel. And I can't wait to see how Joss un-josses himself.

[edted becauce I keep using the italics shortcut when I want whitefont....duh....]


sumi - Aug 07, 2003 4:33:05 am PDT #719 of 10000
Art Crawl!!!

I have to say that I didn't notice the reversed paragraphs. . .and that UrKonn turning out to be Loo's killer completely surprised me -- maybe because we know that vampires sometimes do kill just to send a message.

And that it didn't bother me that he wasn't 100% good because I also never understood why he was sent to train Mel.
Also -- Joss really does that fucked up family thing well, doesn't he?


Holli - Aug 07, 2003 5:12:50 am PDT #720 of 10000
an overblown libretto and a sumptuous score/ could never contain the contradictions I adore

My reaction to Harth kissing Mel was along the lines of "okay, so the Simon/River subtext wasn't enough? You had to make it text with these two?"

That said... such a kickass ending. Wow.


Jeff Mejia - Aug 07, 2003 5:21:31 am PDT #721 of 10000
"Don't think of yourself as an organic pain collector racing towards oblivion." Dogbert to Dilbert

I can't believe Joss actually posted here! Is that high praise for Karl, or what? That last page spread was pretty well done, that's for sure.

About (spoiler) Urkonn's betrayal. I've been running this through my brain, and it really feels like his actions are almost like a hyper-Watcher, in that he was willing to do anything to get the job done. Kind of like Giles killing Ben, but taken to the nth degree.

I went back to re-read the series last night, but only got partway through #1 before I finally had to sleep. It was interesting to note that Karl's highly detailed backgrounds were evident right from the beginning.

(For any Route 666 fans, I thought that a panel of Mel's sister in this last issue really resembled Cassie Starkweather, the heroine of 666.)

This story really does reflect and resonate with the themes developed in Buffy, doesn't it?


tina f. - Aug 07, 2003 6:00:54 am PDT #722 of 10000

WHY did I mail order my copies of Fray? Why? It still hasn't gotten here yet. Might have to break down and just go buy a copy if it isn't here by 2 or so.....and - eeep! Joss!


DavidS - Aug 07, 2003 8:12:14 am PDT #723 of 10000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I saw Karl at Comicon and gave him one of the Scythes that props had made for Buffy. His face was a thing to see.

Awww, nice gesture - especially after all the ding dang tardiness. But you've gotta give props (so to speak) to people who realize your vision. it's not a scythe - it's an axe!


Volans - Aug 07, 2003 12:34:50 pm PDT #724 of 10000
move out and draw fire

OK, okay...real life is just getting on my nerves. I've been carrying Fray around for a couple days, and haven't yet had a chance to read it. Likewise the tpb of The Watchmen.

Grr.

Argh.