I mean, let's say you did kill us. Or didn't. There could be torture. Whatever. But somehow you found the goods. What would your cut be?

Mal ,'Out Of Gas'


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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


§ ita § - Dec 02, 2004 1:11:17 pm PST #6801 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Bill (who is, as he said, all about the Old School) was expounding a point that is nearly 40 years old

The earth being flat is also an old point. But we have more data now, so it's not a good one.

It is possible that Bill was trying to make a point that was only valid before the birth of the person he was talking to. That could be a character point, in fact.

I just don't think it's a good one.


esse - Dec 02, 2004 1:11:21 pm PST #6802 of 10000
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

Well, my point (which I didn't actually state there) is just that, that Bill (who is, as he said, all about the Old School) was expounding a point that is nearly 40 years old.

Yeah, but forty years ago Batman made jokes to Alfred. It's not a point to be discounted, but it doesn't have the same validity now, I think.


Gandalfe - Dec 02, 2004 1:23:22 pm PST #6803 of 10000
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.

Possibly it just means that Bill hasn't kept up with the recent changes to Superman?


P.M. Marc - Dec 02, 2004 1:24:42 pm PST #6804 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Or that QT lacks a good post-Crisis knowledge base.


Gandalfe - Dec 02, 2004 1:25:22 pm PST #6805 of 10000
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.

Maybe he just doesn't care about the post-reboot universe.


Thomash - Dec 02, 2004 1:27:00 pm PST #6806 of 10000
I have a plan.

Or he thinks that point is still valid?


§ ita § - Dec 02, 2004 1:32:21 pm PST #6807 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I figure either QT thought Bill was making a good point, or a bad one. Either way, we should be learning something -- about Bill, perhaps about Superman.

Obviously, I think the speech itself is incorrect. If QT agrees with it, then he's one of those wrongheaded people Calvin complains about. If he doesn't, what do we now know? That Bill is dumb? Bill is mired in the past? Bill doesn't know how to make a useful point? Bill sees everything through domineering glasses?

It starts getting a bit messy, I think if we assume QT disagrees and is communicating anything about Bill other than domineering or stuck in the past. Even so, it's a lot of work, and I doubt most people did it.


Gandalfe - Dec 02, 2004 1:36:39 pm PST #6808 of 10000
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.

Well, QT has done a written of speeches in his movies in the past. Do you think he has normally believed those?

Hell, there's even some other speeches in Kill Bill, aren't there?


§ ita § - Dec 02, 2004 1:43:33 pm PST #6809 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Did you get the impression he believed it? Did you hear the authorial voice in it?

I admit, I didn't care about believing at that point. The movie had way too much talking, and that speech stood out like a sore thumb. But when I ran down my list of reasons of "Why the hell was that jammed in there like that?" the suggestion that it was a pet opinion of QT's that he wanted an audience for wasn't too far down the list. Because it sounds like geek showoffery, for one.

QT has written other speeches. Most of them fit the movie and the moment and the character better, so I don't stop and wonder "Why this? Why now?" I'm not supposed to be making those sorts of lists during the movie.


Holli - Dec 02, 2004 6:31:28 pm PST #6810 of 10000
an overblown libretto and a sumptuous score/ could never contain the contradictions I adore

Does anyone know how far along in the season JLU is?

I ask because I've torrented up through ep 11, but the last few seem to be from a Canadian network.