I had issues with that speech.
The key one being that it's wronger than wrong?
Up until the punching, it was a real nice party.
Kaylee ,'Shindig'
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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.
P.M. Marc - Nov 30, 2004 9:26:35 am PST #6729 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Steph L. - Nov 30, 2004 9:27:55 am PST #6730 of 10000
I look more rad than Lutheranism
The key one being that it's wronger than wrong?
Heh. I was gonna say.
Tom Scola - Nov 30, 2004 9:28:17 am PST #6731 of 10000
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.
The key one being that it's wronger than wrong?
QT blew a whole lot of his geek cred on that one.
Polter-Cow - Nov 30, 2004 9:30:11 am PST #6732 of 10000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
'splain.
§ ita § - Nov 30, 2004 9:31:48 am PST #6733 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Yup, I thought the speech was wrong too.
"Superman stands alone. Superman did not become Superman, Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he is Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red S is the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears, the glasses the business suit, that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, unsure of himself... he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race."
Nope, nope, nope.
victor infante - Nov 30, 2004 9:32:03 am PST #6734 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
QT blew a whole lot of his geek cred on that one.
Not really. You CAN argue that, because the speech comes from an ostensible villain, the POV is tainted. Lex Luthor, for example, has often theorized that Superman really sees normal humans that way, because that's how HE would if he had that kind of power.
I love the bit at the end of the JLA story "Rock of Ages," when the League has foiled his plans, he says to Superman, "What a clever conqueror you are."
Frankenbuddha - Nov 30, 2004 9:37:40 am PST #6735 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
What victor said - that was Bill talking about himself, essentially. At least that's what I got out of it.
§ ita § - Nov 30, 2004 9:41:01 am PST #6736 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
To me he either loses geek cred (by believing the speech) or writer cred (by thinking it was credible enough to have narrative impact on its target).
Eh. Didn't like the movie anyway.
Thomash - Nov 30, 2004 9:41:28 am PST #6737 of 10000
I have a plan.
I had issues with that speech.
I understand that and I totally agree that it had no place in that movie, nearly ruining a perfectly good scene. But it resonated in that I always thought of the glasses as the disguise.
victor infante - Nov 30, 2004 9:42:32 am PST #6738 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
And while I'm on the subject of Morrison's JLA, I came across this great bit again--probably the best insight into Superman and Batman's motivations:
Superman is trapped inside the "Primoridial Destroyer," and succumbing to overwhelming despair as Batman tries to shout him out of it via the Martian Manhunter's telepathy.
Superman: "All we've ever done is try to save Krypton and Mars, save our parents and loved ones over and over again, but we never will ... we never did."
That's completely what I believe is rattling around in their subconsciousnesses,