QT blew a whole lot of his geek cred on that one.

Not really. You CAN argue that, because the speech comes from an ostensible villain, the POV is tainted. Lex Luthor, for example, has often theorized that Superman really sees normal humans that way, because that's how HE would if he had that kind of power.

I love the bit at the end of the JLA story "Rock of Ages," when the League has foiled his plans, he says to Superman, "What a clever conqueror you are."

What victor said - that was Bill talking about himself, essentially. At least that's what I got out of it.

To me he either loses geek cred (by believing the speech) or writer cred (by thinking it was credible enough to have narrative impact on its target).

Eh. Didn't like the movie anyway.

I had issues with that speech.

I understand that and I totally agree that it had no place in that movie, nearly ruining a perfectly good scene. But it resonated in that I always thought of the glasses as the disguise.

And while I'm on the subject of Morrison's JLA, I came across this great bit again--probably the best insight into Superman and Batman's motivations:

Superman is trapped inside the "Primoridial Destroyer," and succumbing to overwhelming despair as Batman tries to shout him out of it via the Martian Manhunter's telepathy.

Superman: "All we've ever done is try to save Krypton and Mars, save our parents and loved ones over and over again, but we never will ... we never did."

That's completely what I believe is rattling around in their subconsciousnesses,

Haven't seen Kill Bill 2 yet (missed it in the theatres and I'm too lazy to get a video rental card) but I'm with victor and Frank on this one. That's not QT's POV, that's a villain's POV.

The key one being that it's wronger than wrong?

Oh, wow, I don't agree with that at all.

I haven't actually seen KB I or II. I always *meant* to.

I felt that the only reason the speech was in the movie was for QT to raise his geek flag.

What's so wrong about it? I don't think I agree with the fact that Clark is Superman's critique of the human race, but I can definitely see Clark being the disguise, rather than vice-versa.

Particularly since, in order to be Clark, he has to put on the zero-prescription glasses. The stuff about Clark being Superman's critique, blah, that's just taking stuff too seriously. But the idea that he is Superman more than Clark, I can go with that.