I kinda think Hec is wrong, but only because I tried to read Love and Rockets and didn't like it.
Aren't they something. They're like butterflies, or little pieces of wrapping paper blowing around.
Kaylee ,'Shindig'
Other Media
Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.
-t - Aug 13, 2004 1:42:25 pm PDT #5474 of 10000
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration
P.M. Marc - Aug 13, 2004 1:55:12 pm PDT #5475 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
I'm not sure what I'd say the best comic book ever is.
At times, I'm tempted to say Starman, because of the way Robinson manages to tell such a layered, complex story within the confines of the DC Universe, which I think is a harder task than either writing with thinly-veiled versions of existing characters (see: Watchmen, The Authority) or creating a 'verse from whole cloth that you share with no one.
I'm *always* enraptured by things that have to deal with structural hoops and limitations and do it well, far moreso than I am by things that have full freedom of their own universe.
Tom Scola - Aug 13, 2004 2:36:25 pm PDT #5476 of 10000
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.
Are you judging comics by their writing alone, or does the art play into it?
I'm not sure if I agree with Hec's "greatest ever" assessment, but Jamie from L&R is a phenomenal artist, his work is technically flawless.
L&R peaked in the 80's, and has been on a slow decline ever since. I find Gilbert practically incoherent these days; he's trying to tell too much story, with too many characters, in too few panels. I think he's trying to imitate the style of a telenovela, but just doesn't work.
Jamie needs to show way, way, way more Hopey.
P.M. Marc - Aug 13, 2004 2:48:01 pm PDT #5477 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Are you judging comics by their writing alone, or does the art play into it?
Mainly judging by the writing. Art plays into my enjoyment of something when I'm reading it, but has less of an impact on how I remember the story itself, with rare exceptions such as Batman: Nine Lives, where Lark outdid himself.
Jaime Hernadez is a master of a style I don't especially care for, so his art isn't going to make me sit up and beg for it. (My tastes run more to Bill Sienkiewicz or the aforementioned Michael Lark--Jaime's in good company, as I dislike Alex Ross, as well.)
Matt the Bruins fan - Aug 13, 2004 3:22:06 pm PDT #5478 of 10000
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Bats looks younger and more lithe. Joker looks...different.
Maybe it's not the Joker, and Batman has run afoul of Beetlejuice?
Greatest Comic of All Time is bound to differ depending on people's priorities, but I think I have to go with Neil and say Sandman would beat out Moore's Promethea for me.
Michele T. - Aug 13, 2004 3:40:50 pm PDT #5479 of 10000
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi
The whole point of comics is that you can't judge just the writing or the art, though. They need to work together.
I'm sticking with Maus for single story achievement; absolutely nothing touches it. Series, I'm less sure of. L&R is great, but I agree with Tom. Sandman has greatness, but I really only love about half of it. Hmmm.
P.M. Marc - Aug 13, 2004 3:43:58 pm PDT #5480 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
The whole point of comics is that you can't judge just the writing or the art, though. They need to work together.
They do work together, but, for me personally, the primary impact comes from the writing. I'll forgive bad art on a beautifully written story where I won't forgive bad writing on a beautifully drawn or painted story.
DXMachina - Aug 13, 2004 4:10:32 pm PDT #5481 of 10000
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.
They do work together, but, for me personally, the primary impact comes from the writing. I'll forgive bad art on a beautifully written story where I won't forgive bad writing on a beautifully drawn or painted story.
I'm just the opposite. If I don't like the art, it takes me right out of the story.
Michele T. - Aug 13, 2004 4:27:41 pm PDT #5482 of 10000
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi
Oh, other great standalone graphic novels? From Hell and Stuck Rubber Baby. Love 'em both to death.
§ ita § - Aug 13, 2004 4:34:41 pm PDT #5483 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I am art's bitch. It can break me and abuse me. I have no idea what the text quality was of anything JJ Muth illustrated, and it took me way too long to become disenchanted with Sin City. The virtue of the white space alone in both transported me, in very different ways. If the plot is sufficient, the right slump of the shoulders or exaltation in flight or just fucking clever panel composition can overcome clunky dialog.