I don't know much about Sue Dibny, so I don't know if they short-changed her and removed her agency (which is what bugged me about Fred -- she used to be useful, but they made a scenario in which she had to be damsel) or not. I have been taking for granted that the story basically required a virgin to sacrifice on an altar to engender what's come up so far. I find some of the characters reacting patronisingly, but I don't get that from the author yet.

I don't mind a story in which abuse against women is the worst thing that can happen on a micro-scale -- I mind it when I feel the author's telling me that's true outside the story as well.

Ple, after you talked specifically about Silver Age characters and sexism, I couldn't help but notice that that the men characters involved in the mindwipe are the ones most strongly associated with the Silver Age. Flash and Green Lantern foremost, with Atom and Hawkman right behind. Green Arrow being the exception, since he's really a second tier Golden Age character that got a second life post-Silver Age with the late sixties Arrow/Lantern team-ups. It couldn't be mere happenstance that the big three Golden Age heroes were excluded.

Plei -- would the Flash arc you're talking about start after the issues collected in this tpb?

Yep. It's the arc that starts in the aftermath of Blitz.

Sometimes, I really like Wally. Which is remarkable, because I very often just want to smack him over the head with a cluestick.

I hear "Golden Age" and "Silver Age" all the time, but I don't have a clue what they mean. (Other than they obviously refer to time periods and comics.)

The Golden Age refers pretty much to comics during WWII. The Silver Age starts with the introduction of Barry Allen!Flash, and goes through the sixties, maybe a little beyond.

I hear "Golden Age" and "Silver Age" all the time, but I don't have a clue what they mean. (Other than they obviously refer to time periods and comics.)

The "Golden Age" refers to those comics (and characters) that were produced at the beginnings of success for the industry. It is generally dated to begin with the appearance of Superman in Action Comics #1, and end sometime after the end of World War II. The main "Golden Age" superheroes for DC (at that time, National and All-Star Comics) were Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. The Marvel (at the time, Timely) Golden Age superheroes are mainly Captain America, the Human Torch and Namor, the Submariner.

After World War II, comics fell in poularity (helped along in the 50's by an attack on comics as encouraging juvenile delinquency and displaying a "homosexual lifestyle"), to the point where almost all of the superhero titles were cancelled, with the exceptiong of the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman titles.

Around 1957, DC decided to update some of its earlier superheroes, giving them a kind of science fiction twist. This was started with The Flash, where the Golden Age character, Jay Garrick, was "replaced" by the new character, police scientist Barry Allen. Following close after was an update of the Green Lantern, where engineer-with-a-mystial-ring Alan Scott was changed to test-pilot-given-a-"magical"-ring Hal Jordan, who was inducted into something like a Galactic Police Force (the Green Lantern Corps).

Someone at DC had the bright idea to have the heroes join up in a team book, labeled the Justice League of America. The increased sales of that book reached the ears of the publisher at Marvel, who then directed Stan Lee to start working on some superhero comics of their own. In short order, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby came out with The Fantastic Four (their version of a team book) in 1962. Soon after, Spiderman, The Incredible Hulk, the Avengers, Thor, and the X-Men followed (although the X-Men was cancelled later and didn't hit its stide until the '70s). This period of the ealry to late '60s is what people usually refer to when talking about the "Silver Age".

This is all a very rough guide to these topics, but I think it can be useful. It wasn't very long ago that I, too, was confues with these labels.

[Editorial comment - I think the "Golden Age" often refers to the fact that these comics sold in the millions and at the time were thought of as disposable, cheap entertainment. It can cetainly be said that the art and plotting of the stories in this era is often crude or simplistic.]

The Golden Age refers pretty much to comics during WWII. The Silver Age starts with the introduction of Barry Allen!Flash, and goes through the sixties, maybe a little beyond.

As DXM notes. Golden Age would include Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel and JSA characters from the 40s. (On the Marvel side you'd have the original Captain America, original Human Torch [not the one in the Fantastic Four], and Namor).

This period is when comics were at their height of popularity. I think Superman was churning out a million issues or something ridiculous. It was a lot - much more than today.

Comics went into a funk in the fifties. That's when EC was ascendent with their (mostly) horror comics. Then there was the big comics scandal (congressional hearings, "comics are horrible and rotting the minds of our children" - same rhetoric you hear about Doom and shooter computer games - and the Comics Code).

In the very late fifties, Flash and Green Lantern were completely retooled and reintroduced. The art was gorgeous. The stories were fun (if light). It was a successful reboot of the whole superhero notion which had been languishing fitfully. This is when the Silver Age starts.

Marvel was at that time reduced to some goofy monster comics (still - Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko were doing them). In the early sixties, Stan Lee saw DC's renewed superhero success and decided to try giving the characters more human sized problems. Hence, the Fantastic Four squabbling every which way, and having trouble making their rent and Peter Parker and his many personal problems.

I think the Silver Age (which generally is only really used in discussion of DC characters) goes up to the late sixties when a new generation of writers and artists at DC responded to the challenge of Marvel by making their comics more relevant to the culture around them. I think the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series by Denny O'Neill/Neal Adams (One Sixties Issue Per Issue) marks the end of the Silver Age.

xpost with surprising agreement on the key turning points

The end of the Golden Age is the investigation into comics in the Senate in the early 50s and the disappearance of the superhero from comics.

The defining moment that ends the Silver Age is up for debate, no one can agree when it was. The two most common moments argued over is the death of Gwen Stacy in Spiderman and the Green Lantern/Green Arrow team-up and foray into social consciousness....

I think the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series by Denny O'Neill/Neal Adams (One Sixties Issue Per Issue) marks the end of the Silver Age.

the Green Lantern/Green Arrow team-up and foray into social consciousness....

Sheesh, you'd think there was some kind of hive mind going around these parts.