I'm just trying to tell you that we have nothing in common besides both of us liking your penis.

Anya ,'Dirty Girls'


Other Media  

Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


Frankenbuddha - May 10, 2004 5:55:32 pm PDT #2509 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Well, he's as super as Zatanna, no, or Dr Strange?

Huh, I don't remember Constantine as being as powerful as Dr. Strange, but it has been a LOOONG time since I read those. Strange I always thought of as Willow powerful, but I always pinged Constantine as "knows a few handy tricks, but not about to take down monsters single-hand".

The Buffistas are a bad influence. Sooo many books I haven't read once, and now I want to start digging out my comics.


Holli - May 10, 2004 5:59:28 pm PDT #2510 of 10000
an overblown libretto and a sumptuous score/ could never contain the contradictions I adore

Played catchup at the comic book store yesterday: I picked up the latest three Y: The Last Mans, the last four Ultimate Spideys, and the the last two Tales of the Vampires...es. I very pointedly steered clear of the Bat-titles, because I spent too much money without them. Besides, Ultimate Spidey is a wee hyper ball of adorablesness.


Frankenbuddha - May 10, 2004 5:59:32 pm PDT #2511 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

So it IS the tights.

Well, that's what's cool about V for Vendetta - he wears a mask and a cape, but not so much with the tights.

However, he's in more of a costume than Rorschach in Watchmen (who just had the mask).


Polter-Cow - May 10, 2004 6:11:03 pm PDT #2512 of 10000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Willow wasn't and became one.

I never thought of Willow as a superhero. She had magic powers, yes, but she never went out on her own to fight the good fight, she was always the accompanist.

Though I guess by that definition, the individual members of, say, the Fantastic Four wouldn't be superheroes. When they are. I just never got a superhero vibe from Willow. I don't think I mean "accompanist" in terms of doing, but thinking.

I'd call Watchmen without a doubt a superhero comic

Definitely.


amych - May 10, 2004 6:12:55 pm PDT #2513 of 10000
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

she never went out on her own to fight the good fight, she was always the accompanist.

So a superhero has to be the lead actor and not a sidekick?


§ ita § - May 10, 2004 6:15:19 pm PDT #2514 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't see how Watchmen can not be a superhero comic. It's emblematic, ur-, something I can't think of right now.

Constantine's saved the world. What more can I guy do?


Polter-Cow - May 10, 2004 6:22:54 pm PDT #2515 of 10000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

So a superhero has to be the lead actor and not a sidekick?

See, that makes Robin not a superhero, when, as half of the Dynamic Duo (Dynamic? Did I get that wrong?), he is. I think I just don't see Willow as a superhero. And maybe not even Buffy and Angel. It could be a medium thing. I'm not sure how I would define a superhero. Hm.


Frankenbuddha - May 10, 2004 6:27:48 pm PDT #2516 of 10000
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

What more can I guy do?

Take out Keanu so he can't do the movie.


Steph L. - May 10, 2004 6:40:30 pm PDT #2517 of 10000
I look more rad than Lutheranism

Ultimate Spidey is a wee hyper ball of adorablesness.

Shit. I am so far behind in Ultimate Spidey that I need to figure out where I left off and buy the TPBs to catch up.

he's in more of a costume than Rorschach in Watchmen (who just had the mask).

Man, Rorschach is fucked UP.


victor infante - May 10, 2004 7:18:43 pm PDT #2518 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

It's a pretty dodgy proposition to define who is and isn't a super hero, but let's give it a whirl. First off there's the semi-obvious stuff: greater than normal abilities. The vast majority of super-heroes have some ability or combination of abilities that are paranormal in some respect. Superman, of course, is the prime example. Even your Batman, Nightwing, Hawkeye, Mr. Terrific, etc. type characters are, generally, so far above anything normal people could do as to be effectively paranormal. (Batman--gadgets and fighting skills aside--is the world's greatest detective. Hawkeye is the world's greatest archer. Nightwing may not be the world's greatest acrobat (it's up in the air, I'd say) but he's so far above anything you'd see at Ringling Brothers as to make the argument moot.

Secondly, the costume and colorful moniker certainly helps, but isn't particularly neccesary (ref: Luke Cage)

But really, it's the attitude that makes the difference, the motivation. There's a sense of altruism that's caught up in that super-herodom, a--as Spider-Man put it--a sense that "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility." Batman's a loon, on one level, but Superman had his number cold in JLA, when he pointed out to him that, underneath it all, Bats was someone who wanted to make sure that no one ever died the way his parents did again. (And, see, this is why I love JLA when it's working--because only Superman would have the balls to call Batman on being a softy at heart.)

So, really, I'd say it's a combination of these factors. Of course, with any good literature, there are exceptions and gray areas. Let's look at them:

  • The X-Men: Are the X-Men super-heroes? Certainly, they have a lot going on, in that department, although that wasn't really Prof. X's goal at the time. They were trained for a very specific mission: stop Magneto from conquering humanity, protect humans from "evil" mutants, and serve as a sort of PR stunt for mutants. As Grant Morrison wrote, being a super-hero was something people could understand. This also seems to be something Joss understands, as he's quite consciously pushing them back in that direction. That being said, I think the X-Men can quite honestly be said to be soldiers who sort-of became Super-Heroes along the way. Plus, on topic.

  • The Punisher: The Punisher was intended, originally, to be more of a dark reflection of the super-hero than to actually be one himself. He's a guy with nothing but a bunch of guns and a costume, who's pushed to kill criminals out of vengeance. It's similar to, say, Batman, but the fact remains, The Punisher's been fairly cavalier about who he kills--at points offing jaywalkers and litterers. So, no, he doesn't get a pass from me. Interesting character, certainly. But not a super-hero.

  • Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Hmm. Super powers? Check. Altruistically putting others before her own safety? Check. (OK--she's had her selfish moments here and there, but that's fine. Nobody, not even Superman, has to be perfect, and I think she's hit more than miss in the selflessness.) Costume? Not so much, but I think she can get a pass on it. Buffy's a super-hero. Think the same holds true for Angel, although most of the rest fall into the "faithful allies" category.

  • John Constantine: John has some magical abilities, but most of it is just bluffing and image. No costume, certainly, and really, his regard for others' safety is dubious, at best. Man's got a body count like 'Nam around him. He does a lot of good, but really? I think he's be much happier having a pint over at the antihero bar.