Yeah. He's my hero.

Mal ,'The Train Job'


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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


P.M. Marc - Apr 21, 2004 2:06:56 pm PDT #1893 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Then re-read Nightwing: Love and Bullets.

For the raar.


P.M. Marc - Apr 21, 2004 2:27:17 pm PDT #1894 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

soggy chex

This interview with Devin Grayson is worth reading just for the Bruce/Dick in the middle.


esse - Apr 21, 2004 2:34:00 pm PDT #1895 of 10000
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

Tim Drake, Boy Stalker

heeeeeeee.

Damn you all for giving me another fandom.


amych - Apr 21, 2004 2:36:31 pm PDT #1896 of 10000
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

Damn you all for giving me another fandom.

We knew you desperately needed one.


esse - Apr 21, 2004 2:43:47 pm PDT #1897 of 10000
S to the A -- using they/them pronouns!

Because really, after awhile you just meander about, saying, "Yeah, I got this one off a drunk Lithuanian who swore it only took one episode, just *one episode,* and I'd never think about it again. Next thing I know there's four seasons of Black Adder in my Netflix queue and I'm running around demanding different news."


§ ita § - Apr 21, 2004 3:48:02 pm PDT #1898 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

the Bruce/Dick in the middle

She's good!


P.M. Marc - Apr 21, 2004 3:53:15 pm PDT #1899 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

She's good!

Yeah, I know. This is the second or third time I've read it, and I still feel the need for a cold shower.


Sean K - Apr 21, 2004 4:57:55 pm PDT #1900 of 10000
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

This interview with Devin Grayson is worth reading just for the Bruce/Dick in the middle.

Wow.

I loved this quote, just before the section in question.

I have no doubt that while growing up Dick Grayson knew that cowl as the face of God.


DavidS - Apr 22, 2004 11:29:37 am PDT #1901 of 10000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Also wowed by Devin's spicy brains. Her character analysis is Ple-like. Must share large chunks with the class:

Dick - a naturally effusive and exultant soul - is taken in, at the worst moment in his young life, by a man who is focused, driven, and principled beyond anyone's expectations of such qualities in a human. Bruce, in those early years, is Dick's rock. He figuratively saves his life, and literally changes the course of it. He's not afraid of Dick's natural intelligence or energy, focusing and refining it, and letting this child in on the biggest secret of his holy-mission-driven life. Bruce makes Dick one of his only true friends in the world; his partner, his sidekick, his confidante, his ally, and, though he never quite says as much, his son. Did I say Bruce? No, that's not quite right - this is actually Batman, and I have no doubt that while growing up Dick Grayson knew that cowl as the face of God. This man was his life. He owed him everything. And he was happy.

And therein lies the rub.

By the time Dick hits his teens, there are three big problems: a secret he's carrying, a hope he's glued to, and a doubt he harbors. The secret is this: despite knowing that Bruce would reverse everything that has transpired in a heartbeat to have his parents back with him, Dick no longer feels the same way. Dick loves his life. He wouldn't trade it for anything - not even another hug from his own mother - and this causes him shame. He's sure that if Bruce knew this about him, he'd feel he'd failed to teach him anything. He's sure that if Bruce knew this about him he'd be disappointed. So he buries this secret - his gratitude and excitement about his own life - as deeply as he can in his heart, where of course it begins to suffocate and leak out in a new form… anger. But better to be angry with Batman than to disappoint him.

The hope he's glued to is equally destructive for its futility. Despite having buried as much of his contentment as possible, Dick still feels tremendous loyalty and devotion towards Batman. This man took his life as it was falling apart around him and reshaped it into something electric and rare. He owes him. And like almost all people who love someone, he wants Bruce to experience this excitement and contentment, too. He wants to make Batman happy. I think you can see the problem there.

The tragedy here is that of course he does. Dick has no idea how deeply he's effected Bruce's life. There's no doubt in any of our minds that Bruce loves him rather madly. Not romantically, but my god - he's so proud of that kid, and so delighted by his resilience and spirit. Dick has done as much as anyone can do to make Bruce happy. Bruce is tied to tragedy - his whole life has been created and dominated by it - and you're never going to see the kinds of grins on his face that you frequently see on Dick's. Whereas Dick had him, Bruce had no one. And beyond that, no one can truly ever make anyone else happy. And you're really in for a hell of a time if you set your sights on Batman.

As for the doubt - this is the worst part. Unable to absorb what he considers to be Bruce's fundamental morality (family above all else), and unable to make him happy, Dick is left, in his late teens, without any real idea of what he means to this man. He knows he can't be a sidekick forever. And "ward" - that stops having meaning the minute he turns eighteen. He's not really his son, and he's certainly not a necessary part of the operation… does it all just end? Dick's terrified. He has to figure out what it is that will allow him to be part of Bruce's life forever.


victor infante - Apr 22, 2004 11:34:27 am PDT #1902 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

I'm big with the DG love. Now if only I could figure out why her Titans sucked so bad.