I could see that point Monique, in another circumstance. But in this one, Zoe was invited here immediately. It grew to 300 posts, in part, because she didn't respond.

This is why, though I think she stated it much more harshly than I ever would have, I think Allyson's right that Zoe doesn't care about our community standards or how we feel. It makes me feel like we're worrying about her feelings too much.

I think Kat's actions were completely right. She said in the thread where people got bothered that people were bothered and that she was coming over here.

It gave everyone, bothered and botherer, a chance to discuss it in the open.

Just to throw in my 2 cents about why she isn't posting in here--If I were Zoe, I would be pretty intimidated in this forum. (Even after the first few posts about the situation) And now, especially after 300 posts or so about how annoying and possibly mentally deficient I am, I really wouldn't want to post anything. Obviously, talking about it in the open is better, but it might be hard to post when you know that the majority of the posters wish there was a marcie program in order to specifically ignore you.

(But then again, if I knew everybody wanted to ignore me, I wouldn't continue to post in the other forums either. The whole situation is a little baffling.)

Cindy, I understand that there is the possibility that if she had followed Kat over here, they could have hashed it out, came to an understanding, group hug, everything's peachy in fifteen posts.

But what did end up happening was within 30 posts made within a half hours' time, people said they were tired of her snotty replies and someone had theorized that maybe she was "special." I hate to rehash things after the warning has already been sent out, but theorizing that either she wasn't ready to deal with it at that time, she was on the phone or in the bathroom, coming into it later would have still been intimidating, IMO, and is no less a public flogging than posting in Press that they've received a slap on the hand.

I'm not trying to judge the opinions people shared regarding this poster, or the outcome. But I think the process, as it stands, exacerbates a lot of issues and tends to make things worse, to be bluntly honest. I think if you've got people stomping out of the thread and/or off the board due to discussions regarding how to handle problem posters, that's a bad thing.

I'm suggesting that making the first move towards warning be simpler, rather than hundreds of posters trying to decide whether or not a stompy should alert somebody that there was a problem.

In my opinion there were first moves being made before it got here. scrappy (?) someone sent an e-mail about the tone of posts, people posted in thread objections. Those to me are first steps.

FWIW, Zoe's web page seems to say she's left the Buffistas and is on another forum. So it may be she decided leaving quietly was a better option than defending herself here.

Personally, I don't like the idea of the entire warning process being done in secret. I think posters should be able to privately request another poster be warned -- but I think once a warning is being issued, it should at least be mentioned in here, so the warned poster can apologize, explain, etc.

OTOH, TT kept the whole warning/banning process private, which may have saved their admins some grey hairs.

I don't like the notion of backchannel at all. I prefer to discuss issues which concern the community in this thread. Whether it is proposing a new Monkey thread or discussions concerning violations of community standards.

See, I'm thinking of this as being a tactful-taking-person-to-one-side thing, rather than an ominous-behind-the-scenes thing. An initial step, or two steps, or three steps, to opening a dialogue and trying to sort things out before it gets to this kind of courtroom situation - and one which would actually take some of the onus off the stompies, 'cause it could simply be what happened to any poster who had given offence, to alert them to the fact that there really was a problem.

I'm not especially invested in this, incidentally - very much making it up as I go along, but I share Maysa's sense that this kind of public discussion of one's failings could be very intimidating for someone who wasn't actually a malicious troll.

Zoe's web page seems to say she's left the Buffistas and is on another forum.

Nah, she's been posting quite a bit in UnAmericans and other threads all the while this discussion's been going on (giving me a taste of what people are saying about the Angel thread). I'm pretty sure she's reading this.

Five e-mails would be enough for the stompies to backchannel among themselves, and consider whether the problem was primarily with poster or the people offended.

What you are describing here is a moderated board, which is not what we have here. This kind of massive structural change to the Buffistas would need to be put to the vote, and would likely be fought tooth and nail. If you think Kafka is ugly now, just wait....

If I were Zoe, I would be pretty intimidated in this forum. (Even after the first few posts about the situation)

Maysa - the first post by Kat was very calm. It was as much of a question on procedure as anything else. The second post was by Jilli, only linking to the incidents in the Angel thread. The third post on the subject was in Zoe's defense, by connie. The fourth was by bitterchick, not sure if a warning was warrented but recognizing a problem. The fifth was by Nutty, correcting what she thought was a mistatement by connie. The sixth was by Victor, pointing the finger (nicely) at people who have objected to Zoe in the past.

Then people started airing their complaints in general.

for reference, it starts at: Kat "Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier" Apr 11, 2003 3:05:10 pm EDT

But there already was taking aside. It's just that it got to the point that someone felt that it should go beyond taking aside. It got to the point that someone, lots of someones including me, thought there needed to be an official response, teeth or no (though I'm in favor of teeth) because the taking aside wasn't working.