And maybe a few of us who simply procrastinated on the voting because it always seemed to be getting modified and we missed the final final trulio final this is really it final voting.

I'm just saying voter turnout does not necessarily translate into dedication or frequency of posts.

yep

I don't think the not-on-permanent-record message that I sent warrants Press notification, though.

Press guarantees nothing, e-mail guarantees nothing, in the thread where the poster posts guarantees nothing.

Unfortunately.

Personally, on this level, I'm most comfortable with e-mail and Kafka. If you come into Kafka to request something and don't stick around to see how it plays out? Oh, well.

Can I ask a question?

Not to be contrary, but just because, frankly, ya'll fascinate me: Isn't a 300+ conversation in Bureaucracy about just how much Buffistina Mcpaininthearse needs a warning because of x,y, and z instances of annoyance also akin to a public flogging?

I think it would be if no one were arguing that B McP didn't and we were just going on about it with no arguments to the contrary. It also might seem like less of one if the person being discussed would discuss the behavior with us.

I can see that us talking about it with out them here to defend themselves can seem like a flogging, but that's not really our fault.

Not to be contrary, but just because, frankly, ya'll fascinate me: Isn't a 300+ conversation in Bureaucracy about just how much Buffistina Mcpaininthearse needs a warning because of x,y, and z instances of annoyance also akin to a public flogging?

Yes, I kind of think it is.

Which isn't to say that it shouldn't happen, because I do recognise that people are frustrated by this instance & by previous instances with other posters. We do need a way to deal with posters who aren't adhering to community standards/are consistently upsetting other people, but I'm not sure this thread is the way to deal with them. I mean, yeah, this is the place to talk about policy, but once we have a firm policy, I'm not sure that spending hundreds of posts discussing the iniquities of any given Buffistina Monkeypants is the way forward. It's like making this into a courtroom. And I don't think that's what Kafka's for.

thinks

t gogogadget asspull

I wonder, would it be feasible to have a policy whereby, rather than publicly coming over here and invoking a stompy, one simply emailed a stompy officially oneself via backchannel when one was offended/distressed and considered another poster's behaviour to be beyond the pale? Without all this discussing, but just by way of expressing one's own feeling of 'this person needs an intervention/stomping/whatever'? And after, say, three (or five, or whatever) such independent expressions of unhappiness from community members (this is assuming that all stompies were kept in the loop) via backchannel, then the stompy would quietly email the person with a request that they modify their behaviour, and copy the objecters in on the matter? And if problems persisted, and members complained again, then a more serious warning - with reminder of consequences - could be sent. And if problems persisted, then maybe either banning or else some more public pre-banning form of intervention?

Are there loads of flaws in this? Probably. Um. But I'm uncomfortable with the sense of public flogging, both in the specific and in the general.

Is this a dumb idea?

I'm just saying voter turnout does not necessarily translate into dedication or frequency of posts.

Of course not. I was just using that as shorthand to explain why Kafka can get a hundred or three posts in a short period of time. I did not mean to imply anything about dedication or frequency.

Are there loads of flaws in this?

The biggest flaw I can think of is the whole backchannel aspect. Wouldn't it really seem out of the blue for a poster to be warned/suspended/banned without any public discussion? Wouldn't that be more upsetting?

FayJay, I haven't given it much thought, so I may be wrong, but my initial reaction is that decisions to warn/etc should NOT be made backchannel. Because then it really will be a situation where those who feel less comfortable here (and who would therefore be less likely to go backchannel) are disempowered by the procedure. Plus the stompies will be forced to make decisions backchannel, which they have already stated they don't want to do, and based on less information about how the board as a whole feels.

Another problem is that, if the whole accusation/fustration registration process takes place behind the scenes, there will be no way for someone to defend herself--or to come to the defense of another--until a decision has already been made.

I think so Elena. I think Kat's actions were completely right. She said in the thread where people got bothered that people were bothered and that she was coming over here.

It gave everyone, bothered and botherer, a chance to discuss it in the open.

Backchanneling, without everyones opinions with their names on them for the botherer to see, and then an official warning seems, can't think of a good word, but cliquey comes to mind.

Edit- Burrell explained that last part way better than I did.

Backchanneling, without everyones opinions with their names on them for the botherer to see, and then an official warning seems, can't think of a good word, but cliquey comes to mind.

Kafkaesque might work, too.