Smonster, I think those are explanations, but not necessarily excuses. I may not hold someone being treated for schizophrenia responsible for their actions, but that doesn't mean that I'll be passive if they have a delusional violent outburst either.

I also do not find the apology in the Unamerican Thread at all sincere, and it's retracted in the next sentence by Zoe continuing to argue her position.

I do believe the behavior in Unamerican warrants a warning.

Also I posted the request here and noted the request in Angel because I do think it's important to discuss it and not just backchannel.

Just FYI, I just emailed Zoe a link to the beginning of this conversation.

I'm with Nutty. Except that I find neither the responses in Unamerican that Jesse linked to, nor the continued "Gay is ICKY" argument, minor offenses.

I was wondering if we needed to tell Zoe to come here to speak in her own defense; I'm glad smonster and Jesse notified her.

I agree with smonster's assessment of Zoe. Z has made some interesting and intelligent posts from time to time. There are others in which I honestly can't make heads or tails of what's being said. I also tend to read her reactions to questioning to be highly defensive. There's also something disquieting about the rigor with which she defends certain ideas or views. Remember the whole discussion about whether or not someone who was not "good" could be truly happy.

I do think a warning of some kind is needed, but perhaps not a BIG STOMPY "OR ELSE" kind of warning. Whatever is going on with Zoe, she clearly has trouble playing well with others. Sometimes, she's okay, and when she's okay, she's actually rather pleasant.

That said, there are times when her behavior can be very disruptive to the community as a whole, and can spark less-than-pleasant behavior in others. That situation must be dealt with, but I'm at a loss as to the how aspect of it.

Weighing in as a mostly non-participant. I've found Zoe's posts to be obnoxious, too, and strongly suspect that the rudeness I see aimed at her is a result of frustration on the part of certain posters. However, some people seem to want her here, so, unless or until the feelings of frustration becomes consensual among the entire community, I don't think that an official action is justified. I'd recommend to the frustrated either simply scrolling past her posts without reading them (i.e. the mental MARCIE) or taking it upon yourselves as individuals to discourage her continued involvement, which could mean taking a warning yourselves. Sympathy, though.

Without reading the whole thing, and only based on what I know of Zoe, I'm with hayden.

I am very much of the opinion that Zoe is not the sole element of the ongoing tension. Yes, some of her responses have been ill-considered, but other of her responses have been in response to what I perceive as provocation. This situation should never have gotten this far, and I am not going to go into how I think it could have been avoided, because that's irrelevant.

If warnings of any kind/level go out, I am of the firm belief that they shouldn't just go to Zoe, despite whatever apologies have gone out. And I don't like saying that, because I love so many of you, but I can't not say it.

smonster, I've read all of Zoe's past mentions of her mental health issues too, and I'm sure the people who are offended by her have as well. It may make a difference in her posting style, but it makes none at all to the effect she has on the community.

I don't know what to do either. But I think what we're seeing is people who started out going out of their way to make allowances for her behavior -- hence the lack of any discussion of official stompy warnings before now -- reaching the end of their ropes.

I think Zoe's deleted post in Angel was directed at me, I was one of the people who asked about her use of quotes.

I wasn't trying to be rude to Zoe. I was trying to find out why she uses quotes. Someone asked if there was a pattern and her only answer was something like "probably." I just wanted to know what the pattern was.

If I came off as rude that's probably because I'm very, very frustrated at having to wade through so many posts by her that don't make sense and trying to keep a lid on my frustration when she's rude, when she makes insulting comments about groups of people, when she can't seem to keep the characters and actors straight.

For the most part, however, I do. But it's very,very hard for me. Very hard.

If it seems that people are getting short with her instead of continuing to be patient, well I know that in my case, I'm starting to wonder why she can't figure out basic things like the character of Cordelia Chase and the actress Charisma Carpenter are not the same.

I was really appalled when I saw the UnAmericans thread in WX where there was a serious and intelligent conversation going on and Zoe went in and made a very off topic, flip comment. It's like she doesn't even pay attention to what is being said.

I have no idea if she does have health issues that contribute to this, if she did maybe it would help us understand or be more accomodating or something however we don't.

From my view point (and this is not going to endear me to some people) it seems like she says certain things to deliberatly provoke.

Which is why I would like someone to warn her that her behaviour is causing unrest.

From my view point (and this is not going to endear me to some people) it seems like she says certain things to deliberatly provoke.

I agree. I think she's deliberately stirring up trouble, and an official stompy warning is long overdue.