Zoe's refusal to apologize when caled on stuff bothers me more than anything else

Perhaps because she doesn't feel like she's done anything to apologize for?

Perhaps because she doesn't feel like she's done anything to apologize for?

But this is a point that's come up before. Sometimes, in order to maintain civility, you have to apologize.

Okay, not "have", because god knows you can't really legislate behavior, but it's easier to say, "Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you" and work it out than to ignore or be snippy and let resentment grow.

UnAmerican: Zoe Finch "All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American" Mar 31, 2003 12:02:22 pm EST

To be honest, Zoe's refusal to apologize when called on stuff bothers me more than anything else

I will say, this is the most important part of it all, to me. Allyson was needlessly obnoxious, in that post that one time, but she did apologize when it became clear that the rest of us strenuously objected to her baiting Zoe like that. I never see Zoe apologize.

Yes, it's as reductive and dumb a thing as that for me. Apologies are our friends! Even the mealy-mouthed "I'm sorry you feel that way" kind!

but it's easier to say, "Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you" and work it out than to ignore or be snippy and let resentment grow.

Yes, this. Because if someone asks me "I couldn't make sense of what you just said, could you please explain it?" I would. If someone said "I find what you just said really offensive", I would say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you" and then hope a cool discussion about it evolved.

I wouldn't ignore their question, I wouldn't say "the people I am talking to understand".

Yes, I think people have gotten snippy with her. But I think that's coming out of a sense of continued frustration.

To be honest, Zoe's refusal to apologize when caled on stuff bothers me more than anything else -- and makes me wonder if she's playing us.

Oh I think she is. Like a cheap plastic ukulele. But as long as we're playing along she's just gonna keep doing it.

Even the mealy-mouthed "I'm sorry you feel that way" kind!

Yeah, and especially because of the whole no-visuals, no-tone-of-voice thing on the internet. You can type "I'm sorry," while rolling your eyes and muttering under your breath, if you're committed to maintaining a civil tone.

I think the disconnect I'm seeing is that people don't seem to consider their responses to Zoe as rude. I'm afraid I feel differently.

Oh, they are rude, all right. The problem is, they are rude *now*. In the beginning, when Zoe was newer here, people answered her politely.

I would like to remind people that the first rule of backchannel is don't mention backchannel.

I would like to Amen this. Because frankly, if I post something somewhere that is not here, and it's not publicly available, I'm not going to be tolerantly amused if it suddenly appears in a public forum.

I equate it with the netiquette of not posting private e-mail.

But, she apparently wants to stay. I have seen posts from her that seemed Warning-worthy, but never til later, I just don't necessarily think this latest thing is.

I don't think this incident is either. In all honesty, I totally see Victor's point.

What I am curious about and would like to know is what happens when the pattern of behavior is at the low-level-radioactive irritant?

What I don't like is the community response and frustration. She's easy to skim, but all of the responses are not because they are made by people I like and respect.

See for me Schmoker was an easy one. And I wasn't offended by him. But it was the community response to him that made it difficult for me.