When he was directly asked, and thought he'd be kicked out anyway, he categorically denied it with bluster and heated commentary.

I don't get the "and thought he'd be kicked out anyway" part of that.

John, after it was suggested that you e-mail him, and then you came back and asked what to do if you got no clear response, he came in to this thread with a lot of bluster -- saying he thought he was going to be kicked out because he had offended a stompy, but that he wanted to state anyway that he was not this person. I'm paraphrasing madly, but, that's the gist, I think.

Be he's gone. And he's not coming back.

(If he comes back, of course, I'll lose any tiny shred of respect I had for him, and will probably throw large paragraphs at his head. But he's not. I believe that.)

And it's possible (probable, I think, from what I know of his personality; but I don't know, of course) that he is reading this right now.

So I say, with greatest respect to you: maybe we could let go of talking about the specifics of the mieskie/Schmoker/Anathema situation. We do have some things to say about trolls, I think, most of which I'll want to talk about too, in the morning, but retreading the details of this particular over-now situation is... not going to accomplish anything. I think. I think.

Sorry, I was just trying to clarify my earlier, ill-advised post.

but retreading the details of this particular over-now situation is... not going to accomplish anything.

Not in relation to this particular incident. But I did have issues with how the original suspension happened. I think it could have been more fair, a more measured response.

he thought he was going to be kicked out because he had offended a stompy, but that he wanted to state anyway that he was not this person

OK, fair enough. But if he really thought he was going to be kicked out anyway, why not tell the truth? The two things kind of contradict each other.

...and this is why miss Lizard is right.

Just want to say, RL, I think you handled this very poorly. In the future, if you are privvy to backchannel information, please keep it to yourself unless death is imminent.

Not in relation to this particular incident. But I did have issues with how the original suspension happened. I think it could have been more fair, a more measured response.

As did I, but I do think we can learn from the situation. One thing we did right, at least in this most recent instance, was to approach him directly and ask to work with him to a solution. It was his choice to take "total exile." I personally feel he could be invited back in two months--the time of his original, never-fulfilled suspension--but we have no precedent to base that decision on, and it probably would have had to come to the board. I'm not sure how that would have worked.

I think, at the end of the day, it's best that we remember that we're dealing with human beings. Sometimes obnoxious human beings, but whenn at all possible, it's best to deal with people gently.

I'm glad I finally know what y'all were talking about. FTR, my snerk was made without any back channel information.

Given how it unfolded, I understand how and why the stompies had to keep it off the table until they had all the information. Thank you, stompies.

I do think this is a good lesson for us to consider as a community going forward. Because...he was trainable. He certainly had his chances, and blew them. But when he came back he made a strong effort to fit in, and seemed to value the culture. Just something to bear in mind when we're dealing with somebody who isn't an obvious troll only intent on disruption.

I agree with Hec (but am petty enough to be annoyed that we have to "train" an adult). I still feel really badly that John caught flak for doing something we told him to do, just because the Schmoker incarnation decided the best defense was a good offense + lying to boot.

Just want to say, RL, I think you handled this very poorly. In the future, if you are privvy to backchannel information, please keep it to yourself unless death is imminent.

Even though I understand why the stompies had to keep this off the table until they figured out how to handle and announce it, I think we should not start pointing the finger at each other, Allyson. I can also understand why people who did know, didn't think it should happen behind the scenes. Either way, The Yoko Factor is over. This should be the hugging-in-the-elevator-shaft scene in Primeval.

My. word. I'm turning into Andrew. Scared now.

edited to say the same thing in fewer words. Caffeine kicked in.

Well, not only is my insatiable curiousity satisfied, but my guess based on the cryptosity was correct.

Anyway, I think that this was handled correctly as we do have the tendancy to be all non-shit-uppy about things and it would have been horrible to do in public.