And those of us who have problems with the whole way things are being presented feel like pushy bitchy people, too.

There really isn't a solution.

I vent in bitches (and in here, and anywhere, really), because I feel like an ass for trying to remind people that people are feeling left out. So forget it. Like I said, whatever. People are going to feel out of the loop, because the loop is frustrating, and things will happen that people don't like. But it really feels to me like anytime someone dislikes a suggestion, or raises issues with it, they're treated like idiots by those who like process wonking.

There's no happy medium to be had.

What I saw being discussed, and how it was being discussed, made it feel to me like those who like to drill down into the complicated and irritating aspects of voting were assuming a mandate.

Assuming a mandate to do what?

Trust me, no matter how keyboard-thunky you're feeling at this point, I'm feeling twice as bad.

OK my question was really like this:

One day, the buffistas decided that voting would be a good idea. Next we had to decide how voting should be done. This all went very smoothly, because ____

All I want you to do is kind of complete that sentence for me, Plei -- voting may not be the best of all possible worlds, but, once voting was decided, everything very quickly became very upsetting and annoying for you.

Please tell me a story about how it could have gone otherwise, just so I can get some insight into why you hate this so much.

Or get Hec to do it, Mister Good Enough, where are you? Tell me a story about the quick, non-mathy establishment of a Good Enough buffista voting system.

Well in my best of all possible worlds this is what happens

Somebody says "Let's have a movies thread"

We vote.

We actually know whether the group Buffistas wanted a movie thread or not.

Then we don't talk about it for 6 months.

Seems pretty simple.

Yes, this.

Here's what I'm still unclear on. I've skimmed bunches and bunches of posts about preferential voting and yadda yadda yadda. I tried to read them at first but after a while the words sort of swim. And the thing I've never understood is why we need it. I mean, we're not using this voting method for thread names so what possible decisions would we have to make as a community where there are more than two options?

One day, the buffistas decided that voting would be a good idea. Next we had to decide how voting should be done. This all went very smoothly, because ____

It was all a dream, and no-one bothered to wake up?

Seriously, I think actually that perhaps the how should have been discussed and options set in place before the what was voted on.

So the tale would start with "The B's decided to see if they wanted to vote. They came up with ideas on what ways of voting would work best with their system. Emails were sent to all registered members, with a survey attached. Stats were gathered. The top two choices were narrowed down, and emails were sent again."

And so on.

voting may not be the best of all possible worlds, but, once voting was decided, everything very quickly became very upsetting and annoying for you.

In this case, it was already upsetting and annoying. I just stopped being quiet about it.

I am fairly certain that I am not a member of the Go14 and I found the phrase, not offensive, but deliberately baiting and divisive.

We have a problem--we need to vote on two items that will inevitably require more than two options. We need a practical solution. It is either preferential voting or a run-off. One or the other. That's it. It's simple, really.

I am fairly certain that I am not a member of the Go14 and I found the phrase, not offensive, but deliberately baiting and divisive.

Well, I did cop to being pissy. I wasn't attempting to bait.

so what possible decisions would we have to make as a community where there are more than two options?

The number of votes required for MVT and the number for seconds, if any.

Or did we already decide on seconds? And could anyone tell me what "seconds" means?

so what possible decisions would we have to make as a community where there are more than two options

There's only ever been one actual example, and it's the very next vote we need to have. Minimum Voter Turnout.

After that everything gets a hell of a lot simpler.

Ah, hell. Why not just have people fill in the number they think would work best, and run the measures of central tendency?