it's a false consensus of the handful of peeps who still have enough brainspace to come into Kafka at this point.

Right about now, I'm thinking that if you don't come into Kafka, you don't expect to have your silent wishes taken into account.

I know that's what I give up when I stay out, anyway.

In absence of any other way to move forward, why stay put?

Right about now, I'm thinking that if you don't come into Kafka, you don't expect to have your silent wishes taken into account.

True, that. Well, sort of true.

I'm not sure, if one has given up on this thread, that one even is aware that there are opinions or options up for offer.

But, eh, can't force people to give a good g-d damn.

I'm not sure, if one has given up on this thread, that one even is aware that there are opinions or options up for offer.

But if you've given it up, surely you know stuff is being argued about and decided upon? That's what it's always been for. If you stay out (reasonable choice of action), then that's precisely what you're missing, including the specifics.

But if you've given it up, surely you know stuff is being argued about and decided upon?

Yerp.

So really, I guess if the specifics bug you when you learn about them later, and you weren't reading, it's your own damned fault.

I just want more people to be willing to read.

I don't mean this as a personal attack on anyone because lord knows I'm probably just as guilty of scaring people away as anyone, but I think the reason people get frustrated is that we're so bogged down in the minutia of the process, that we haven't been able to decide anything.

This. The people who aren't the Go14, are the people who don't have the stomach/patience/time/stamina/stubborness/(put word here) to sit and split the hairs of Voting Process. And frankly, I don't blame them.

Also, if the two choices are preferential voting (PV) and runoff, and PV is a form of runoff, let's try PV and stop dicking around. Please.

Whatever.

I think I withdraw my objections and stand in the "don't even care anymore, even though I think it's a bad idea" corner.

I don't think there's consensus, I do think that doing it just this once will end up swinging things/confusing things re: "should we have pref. voting", but I'm too tired to lucidly state my opinion, so as above, whatever.

I mentioned earlier that I voted in the city election today. From the local newspaper...

Fewer than 20 percent of the registered voters are expected to participate in many of the 16 municipal elections that include West Palm Beach, election officials said.

When I left the polling place the poll worker said, "You are one of the few who has the right to bitch tomorrow." Then when I got home I started reading this conversation.

What I think we should do is that we should post in press when we enter formal discussion. Then again when it is time to vote.

I don't know if we are in formal discussion mode yet.

the usual gang of fourteen

I'm a bit offended by that -- I'm assuming that I'm in the Gang?

How many of the Gang are Popular Kids? Oh, no, there are no Popular Kids. One of the Core Buffistas told me that, so it must be true.

But seriously, there's consensus where we decide stuff and there's consensus about Good Decision Methods.

When we were coding this site, people with a particular interest in HTML (seven years in the industry, myself) and programming and whatever had a long, geeky, incomprehensible-to-most-people discussion about the best way to do it.

People at that point did not use Cranial Trauma Imagery to express their disgust at the complexity of it all and the fine-tuning and the "aha, but what about such-and-such" levels of refinement.

They trusted that people knew how to make code that would make this site work well, and did not complain about the complexity or abstruseness of their discussions.

In the discussions here of the technicalities of voting, exactly the same level of geeky enthusiasm, care, and attention to detail is taking place,and for exactly the same reasons -- taking pride in one's work and wanting to provide fellow buffistas with a really great system -- and people hate it. They post that they feel sick, that they are shaking with horror, that they are weeping with frustration.

They post, sometimes repeatedly, that we are going into this issue in too much detail.

I am probably admitting to being autistic or something, but I don't get that at all.

I know it's not truly that they distrust the evil Gang of 14, or think the GO14 are trying to trick fellow buffistas into accepting a flawed, corrupt system which will allow them to take over the board -- so why is it?

I know it's not truly that they distrust the evil Gang of 14, or think the GO14 are trying to trick fellow buffistas into accepting a flawed, corrupt system which will allow them to take over the board -- so why is it?

You really don't want me (admittedly, number 15 *grin*) to answer that.

I don't think you can compare voting and policy debates, which are not as essential on many, many levels as the core code base, to coding the board. I don't think anyone out there was anti-code base, so you're not going to get people thinking "damn, stupid PHP 133+ MoFos!". However, there are people who find that drilling down to specifics in terms of the actual way things are run IN THIS FASHION? Is both annoying and runs counter to what they believe in.

Because of that, they don't take part in the discussion, or when they try, they get frustrated by "But don't you see the BEAUTY of System XYZ?? It's FABULOUS!", and go worry about more important things, like bills or finding the right change for the vending machine.

Because this essentially boils down to political differences and hits hot-button issues.

Because I personally feel that, while the intentions may be good, I've seen the paving stones on the primrose path.