That's exactly what I was saying.

Ok, so why snark at me for understanding you? I'm caught between offended and baffled here.

FOURTEEN PEOPLE. FOURTEEN.

But this is EXACTLY why I think we need an easy way for people to contribute, and to me that way is voting If only 14 people really care about discussing all this shit in all of this great detail, it's important to me that everyone else has an opportunity to have some impact without having to quit their jobs to read this thread. I don't want community decisions made by 14 people, even if I am one of those 14 because I am unable to keep my big mouth shut.

I believe that the original proposal made a zillion posts ago to have four more questions that would settle the issues of Votor Turnout, number of seconds, etc., and to use preferential balloting just this once before we debated it to death (too late!), was simple. It's the endless meta-debate on the subject that's made it seem complicated.

Want to put it again, Jon?

Well, if things are too controversial to bring up, then how does a voting system help? If you are afraid to bring it up, it will never get voted upon.

Fourteen people what? In this thread, or on the board, or...?

DX ran the stats. I can't remember the exact percentage, but most of the posts in here? Were from FOURTEEN individuals.

And I know I post a lot in here, to confirm things like thread creation, or whitefont clean up. And I was #15.

Am I an OB, Plei? I thought I was more of an obnoxious blow-soft.

t Super Porny Pants is too afraid of the thread at the moment to swoop in and make a smart remark about newlyweds

So we've got tread names, new threads, white font and trolls

We don't have to discuss preferential voting to death - but it seems to me that at least enouigh people favor to make it worth voting on the question.

Seriously, what about deciding that as it occurs, so we're not locked into it? When there's an item with multiple choices, we ask both questions and the preferential vs. most votes decision is for that item only

ETA

only I meant "only" not "always"

I'm fucked. There'll be 100 posts after this one.

And there is at least one example where preferential voting makes sense.

One we decided to have a minimum voter turnout requirement - without deciding what that would be. if you ever had an example where you have to decide between multiple options this is it. Of course as somone said you can just have the choice with the most votes wins. But ya know what especially in a case like this the odds are that it won't reflect what the vast majority want. If you want simplicity and don't care whether the decision making process is rational or fair , why not flip the approapriate D&D die. You have four sided, six sided, eight sided, ten sided, and twenty sided. And there are ways to combine them to get any other number of choices. If "good enough" and "simple" are the only values and "fair" and "rational" are not important, because the issues at stake are so trivial -why not roll dice? If "fair and rational" are important values enough that we want to vote at all, then preferential voting should at least be considered.

Anathema--

The reasons I thought voting would work better is

1. I felt that when we had conversations where we came to a consensus, we had no way of knowing whether or not it was a consensus in any sense of the world. Many people feel very strongly about thread proliferation, and it seems like they just gave up, because people who wanted new threads (myself included) shouted them down. They were upset.

2. When we had consensus conversations, it was very hard to keep them on track. They got very circular and into minutea (much like this has. They seemed to have no end, becuase it was hard to tell when a consensus was reached.

so why snark at me for understanding you? I'm caught between offended and baffled here

Go baffled, choose baffled!

Seriously. I wasn't snarking.

If we continue doing things by consensus, and we respect each others' feelings to the point where certain points get a veto as soon as someone says "this is making me feel uncomfortable" then the most important things are going to get ignored.

We're only going to achieve consensus on things that nobody really cares about very strongly and the things that people do care about will be under the carpet.