Hey, JonB, did I send you that goofy-ass picture of me from my fat period

All 8 Mbytes of it, yes. ;)

Several people sent me photos a couple of weeks ago. Sorry, I haven't gotten around to putting them up. It will happen soon.

I don't know this for certain, Jon, but I think a benevolent monarchy, with Ple as the monarch, would work for me.

I pretty much don't care if the discussion continues right now or not. I don't feel anything is being accomplished, which really means it's not working for *me*. So I just won't read it, and I may miss information that's inbetween the cracks. Also, people may very well like each other less, and develop tensions that overflow into other threads.

This I can't control. I have no leverage to get a discussion I think is touchy and unproductive stopped, because I'm assuming that the people taking part in it are getting something from it. But the idea that many people are having their opinions about participating in Bureaucracy shifted to the "no" side should be considered by everyone, including those who are getting value from the ongoing talks. If this is acceptable collateral damage, so be it.

goes back to wait mode

I've had success here assuming that I can let the folks who enjoy fooling with minor details do that, so long as I keep half an ear open and respond to any actual votes. I think paying too much attention to the conversation in here if you're not actually interested in it is probably a mistake.

My pic was 8MB? What the freak did I do?

Sorry, I'm decent with a 'puter, but I get really confused with pics and resizing and such. Hmmm....I suck. I thought I had it down to under 10K. Guess it is back to the drawing board.

I don't know this for certain, Jon, but I think a benevolent monarchy, with Ple as the monarch, would work for me.

But sweety, I'd be all "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! MOOHAHAHAHA!"

Because I'm like that. A shriftocracy, on the other hand... t /natter

Also, ITA with ita. Again.

What was that quote about how democracy is an imperfect system but it's better than any of the alternatives?

I do appreciate the sentiment, except we aren't a democracy. We aren't a country (despite a few virtual ones getting underway in Natter). Sadly, we aren't even an island.

Maybe I was just so fat in that pic that it's not possible to get under 10K. I can barely get under 220 pounds.

You can be my Red Queen any day, Ple. After all, I was the caterpillar in high school, and I always had a thing for that whole Off With Your Heads power trip. It was very attractive.

This may be my longest post to date, and like all long-posters, I truly believe that everyone will read this post and say whoa, that is the answer, thanks for showing us the light Wolfram, and I’ll be hoisted upon shoulders and revered hero-of-Cantonian style. Or I may be marcied. But this is the way I see things.

This is not a democracy, it’s a melee of words and ideas bandied about by a small percentage of the membership, and forced into being through persistence, stubbornness and in most cases sheer exhaustion. For most of us, this is not fun.

This afternoon I waded through 200-odd posts of people either a) simplifying a complicated voting procedure; b) complicating a simple voting procedure; or c) getting visibly frustrated, bitter and/or resentful over the constant bickering and arguments going on in this thread. My proposal is simple: leave the arguing, fighting, posturing, debating and haranguing to the people who want to do it. With over 800 registered members, of which at least 135 actively participate and vote, it’s time for representative democracy.

I propose that the membership nominates and elects a “council of watchers” who voluntarily accept the job of doing all of the above with each other. The council votes on the little stuff (what's on the ballot, how to vote, what the hell's a quorum, what issues are “bigger stuff” for the membership to vote on) and takes the bigger stuff to the membership (Monkey, Cheese and Whedon thread - yes/no; whitefonting policy proposals - yes/no; etc.) Council of watcher discussions would be open to all members to participate and make proposals but only “watchers” could make motions and second them for a “watcher” vote.

I know most of you have flinched when you hear the ideas of officers or directors being elected here, but I’m not sure what the knee-jerk reaction is for. Are you afraid of not being fairly represented? Then be a watcher, or nominate someone who will listen to your opinion. Are you worried that it’s over bureaucratizing things? Look around at the monster we have now.

In theory all the members should post their opinions and engage in meaningful discussion on all the issues. In reality, 14 people post 95% of the discussions and it would be impossible for every active board member to actively weigh in on all the issues, nor do they want to. Most active members want to post in peace about Buffy, Angel, Firefly and the HoYay. They don’t want to muddle through 200 posts of Bickereaucracy. And I don’t think it’s necessary that people get frustrated and upset over the discussions going on there. Find someone whose opinion you respect and trust, and nominate him/her for the council of watchers. Or make it known that you’d like to be on the council, and someone will nominate you. Then don’t complain about the arguing, fighting etc.

I honestly think that if this board is going to be around for any long term period of time, there needs to be a system that’s representative as well as practical. And so far, over two weeks and thousands of posts have gone by and a voting system for voting has yet to be finalized. The irony is starting to get ridiculous.