It's simple. I slap 'em around a bit, torture 'em, make their lives hell...Sure, the nice guys'll run away,but every now and then you'll find a prince like Spike who gets off on it.

Buffy ,'Get It Done'


Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier  

A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.

Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych


Anathema - Feb 24, 2003 11:49:00 am PST #5151 of 10001
Jonathan Will Always Be My Hero

You know, perhaps once an issue has been identified, each of us should refrain from posting more than once on the issue. Unless we want to reverse our position, that is.

That way we avoid a lot of thread backup, and we don't just engage in a lot of meaningless agreement between people who already have made up their minds. Which might also be a good reason why a seperate thread would be a good idea for discussion of issues. You could then back and forth an issue to your heart's extreme in Bureau, but you would only be able to make one sustained plea for your position in the official discussion thread.

Sometimes I worry that when 10-15 posters post 150 times between them that it appears there is more support for or against a position than there really is.

Not even sure this suggestion is managable. But just thought I would throw it out there.


Cindy - Feb 24, 2003 11:49:41 am PST #5152 of 10001
Nobody

I don't want to lose my franchise because I'm on a business trip for a few days.

You could just as easily lose it if it went to vote because you get sent out of town just as a 7 day discussion period expires. I've had the flu during elections. I was on bed-rest during a pregnancy too late to get an absentee vote during elections. I buried my father the day our school committee voted on closing my son's school. If we try to cover every contingency we'll first of all fail, but also risk going nuts. If a vote is close and someone comes back and says, I wasn't here, I'd rather let the person submit a late vote.


Jesse - Feb 24, 2003 11:51:09 am PST #5153 of 10001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Sometimes I worry that when 10-15 posters post 150 times between them that it appears there is more support for or against a position than there really is.

That's why we're going to vote. The discussion volume won't count in the decision-making.


Nutty - Feb 24, 2003 11:52:48 am PST #5154 of 10001
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Sometimes I worry that when 10-15 posters post 150 times between them that it appears there is more support for or against a position than there really is

Well, that's a good reason to hold the vote. That, and there might be a plurality of people who say 'yea' at one moment, but that the majority, most of whom are asleep at that moment, would still say 'nay'. So I think that, post-voting-impplementation, it will be fine to have 300,000 posts (okay, not) debating a topic with endless circularity, as long as the voting constituency at large knows that it's the vote that counts, not the discussion.

[excessively wordy x-post with my woman Jesse!!]


Anathema - Feb 24, 2003 11:52:56 am PST #5155 of 10001
Jonathan Will Always Be My Hero

No, I understood that, Jesse. Maybe I did not phrase what I meant very well.

I just meant that for people who don't hang in Bureau a lot, perhaps it would be easier if there were a thread were they could go and quickly run through everyone's postion without having to wade through hundreds of posts.


Lyra Jane - Feb 24, 2003 11:53:21 am PST #5156 of 10001
Up with the sun

perhaps once an issue has been identified, each of us should refrain from posting more than once on the issue. Unless we want to reverse our position, that is.

Disagree. First, because I don't think people repeat themselves (much); second, because I think refining and developing viewpoints through discussion is important. I also think it's important to be able to defend your position.

As for the idea that too few people are posting too much and it's obscuring issues, my only response is a snotty one -- no one is forbidding the other 750 people posters to join this discussion, or preventing someone who wants to say their piece and leave from doing that.


Jon B. - Feb 24, 2003 11:53:32 am PST #5157 of 10001
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

You could just as easily lose it if it went to vote because you get sent out of town just as a 7 day discussion period expires.

I could always submit my vote ahead of the official voting period, much like an absentee ballot. Regardless, I think "a day or two" or discussions, as Wolfram suggested, is too short. Three business days I could live with.

If a vote is close and someone comes back and says, I wasn't here, I'd rather let the person submit a late vote

Very much against this no matter what the length of voting period. We'd never decide anything that way.


erinaceous - Feb 24, 2003 11:54:34 am PST #5158 of 10001
A fellow makes himself conspicuous when he throws soft-boiled eggs at the electric fan.

we can't tie ourselves in knots and/or require people to vote.

Okay, why can't we require people to vote? Where are the Australians? If you don't vote, you can't post! Or your membership is made inactive!

All right. This is obviously offensive and wrong, but it made me go to the Happy Mad With Power place for a moment. Sorry.


Jesse - Feb 24, 2003 11:55:36 am PST #5159 of 10001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

I just meant that for people who don't hang in Bureau a lot, perhaps it would be easier if there were a thread were they could go and quickly run through everyone's postion without having to wade through hundreds of posts.

Have you SEEN the show threads? If you're not willing to wade through hundreds of posts on any given topic, you won't like it here.


Anathema - Feb 24, 2003 11:58:58 am PST #5160 of 10001
Jonathan Will Always Be My Hero

Jon's right by me. At some point you have to set a cutoff. Just to make things managable, if for no other reason. A cutoff line is always unfair to whomever is just barely on the other side of the line. But if you move the line for them, then you just make another person the one that is just past the line. Someone's always going to be just thismuch on the wrong side of the line. But over time that should even out.