Just FTR, I'm not saying there's no difference between some of the back-and-forth between folks here and a newbie jumping in and saying the same thing. Just that, when it happens, we might give the intent a little more benefit of the doubt when we call someone on the actual post.

But much more importantly than that, if I've called anyone anything in the past, and they are offended by it tomorrow, it's polite of me to go "Oh. Umm. Sorry? Sorry." Not "What a double standard! I called you that yesterday!"

Hell yes. And it's that attitude that needs stomping, more than someone misjudging their tone or making an unfortunate remark.

[Or, more relevant to our situation - "What a double standard! So-and-so called you that just the other day, so how the hell can you pretend to be offended now?"]

I'm with you on this. I mean, it's not that hard for me to tell what's going on and when someone might be pushing things. But when we say to newbies "read, listen, learn" and then jump on missteps, we might consider that the fact that there are RL (or backchannel) relationships going on that make some of this stuff ok might not be all that clear to someone who just found this place.

Why wouldn't it be clear to Joe Newbie that some people know each other better than Joe Newbie knows anyone? Why wouldn't it be clear that friends can tease each other over subjects and in ways that strangers can't? I'm having a hard time wording this, but I think most people do or should comprehend that when they're new at a board, of course some of the people at a board are already friends (of varying degrees of intimacy) with one another.

I am worried that some of this discussion isn't growing out of a real problem, but rather that it's growing out of the seeds of malcontent that mieskie sowed; when he was called on things, I didn't so much feel that he really did not know the difference between one of us blathering about a secret crush and him making lewd comments about a teenagers breasts. I think he was rules lawyering, so that he could continue making lewd comments about a teenager's breasts or any other kind of offensive attack. That doesn't mean I think anyone should be bounced (or even always warned) the first time s/he makes a social gaffe. But please remember even if people are new here, they're not (hopefully) new to living among the human race. Of course you can say things to someone you've known a long time that a relative stranger could not say. I think a newbie should go to any community equipped with that basic bit of social knowledge.

I'll add two things. Newbies - I'm also pretty new here. I have no props earned. Also, I think we've gotten mostly splendid newbies, with only one difficulty and he was suspended.

I also have no grammar.

I’ve seen it denied here, but the naked truth is that this community does have a distinct tendency to tell newbies “shut up and wait” in no uncertain terms.

I'm so new here that sometimes I even offend myself. Although my opinion may not matter much to some, I want the old-timers to know that newbies get excellent treatment here. Newbie posts are never flamed or disparaged, you don't hear old-timers constantly nagging newbies to read the FAQ, or saying such-and-such was discussed just last week. At worst a newbie post may be ignored.

I also want to say its refreshing that this community is very open about everything. I'm gratified that stompy feeters and other buffista old-timers discuss "housekeeping" issues in open forums and give even newbies a chance to give input on these topics. I'm sure it would be tempting to have an "admin" only thread with password access or limited posting ability and I'm glad there's none here. It's like the Sunshine Act.

I think the problem NOW is that we're talking about "how you talk to friends" vs. "how you talk to strangers" when that is rarely, and in this case clearly not, the issue.

The issue is that someone took a clumsily worded but entirely inoffensive remark, that was not directed at any specific person, badly, name calling ensued and when the person who made the initial remark defended their position they were soundly blasted by a large group of people. Seemingly for having the gall to defend himself.

Of course there are differences in how I talk to you guys vs. how I talk to my friends. I'm MUCH cruder with my friends. But that's not what started the recent event.

I've read so much, I want to make sure I'm following and am not purposefully playing obtuse. I'm just asking outright with names. MM are you referring to Rob's comment on Schmoker's '6 person audience' post?

The issue is that someone took a clumsily worded but entirely inoffensive remark, that was not directed at any specific person, badly, name calling ensued and when the person who made the initial remark defended their position they were soundly blasted by a large group of people. Seemingly for having the gall to defend himself.

I made this point once before. Everyone is free to defend themselves ad nauseam, and everyone else is free to jump down everyone's throat for doing it. If you don't want to get bitch-slapped, don't be a wiseass.

Yes.

If you don't want to get bitch-slapped, don't be a wiseass.

Ah. Well, then, there goes most of my conversation.

Or most of the conversation in Natter.

Or 80% or so of the conversation in the show threads.