ita said what I've been trying to phrase for some time now in my head. And so much better. And then Jesse and Beverly came and took care of the responses.

I'm wondering what the interpersonal online expectations are, and why they seem to be so different from meatspace expectations.

I'm quite new to the Internet-community-ing, and the Buffistas are the only place I've ever posted in. My expectations (and the way I try to behave) are pretty much based on 'what would I do if those people were actually in front of me'. I'm talking to people, after all, not to the screen and the computer-resident-demons.

I go way back to TT, but I've got both the language (and cultural) barrier and the fact I've never met any Buffista F2F. After a (relatively) long time of posting, I still wouldn't use a lot of stuff I may say to somebody whom I've actually met IRL or who is able to see my face and expressions while I speak the words (well, they won't, because I move my hands so much when I speak that mostly they'll just try to dodge a straying limb, but they'll hear my tone of voice while taking cover). However, that's just me, and I can understand the kid who immediately wants to join the groups who are already in midplay in the sandbox.

It's funny to me seeing the little sub-communities that seem to be popping up.

Even in the Natter thread there are little sub-natter-ers, like the people who are awake while most of the Not-UnAmericans sleep.

it bothers me that something I say to someone I feel I know may be viewed as tacit permission to be as familiar by someone new.

Several people de-lurked saying they felt it's unfair that they know so much about those who post, while nothing is shared by them. I think a lurker may feel so familiar with some of the posters, that they may post from that I-know-you place, forgetting that 'if I can see you, you aren't necessarily able to see me', if I'm making any sense at all. It can be a great way to start off, feeling comfortable and welcome, but it's sometimes difficult to remember that things take time to work properly from both ways (oh, and I do miss Beverly's presence on the boards).

I know I had a point somewhere, but it's very much gone now. Oy. Sorry about that.

Through a lot of this discussion I'm wondering what the interpersonal online expectations are, and why they seem to be so different from meatspace expectations.

Speaking from personal experience and observations, I think that the reason for the difference in online vs. meatspace interactions is that a lot of us haven't actually met each other, so the accompanying body language or tonal inflections are not there. It's quite clear to me who has met each other on this board, due to an added level of familiarity. However, since the conversation flows so fast here, it can be easy to forget who's met whom and assume a higher comfort level among the majority of Buffistas than what is actually there.

I feel much the same as Beverly. I was around in TT, but I had to go away during the WX tenure. Coming back and trying to fit in again has been hard, because of the afore-mentioned comfort levels and whatnot.

arguing that as a serious idea. Were they?

No Liz, just thinking out loud about some points others have made.

(((Nilly))) Nice to be missed, although I'd really rather circumstances were such I didn't have to be missed.

Not to change the subject, but the Golden Globes reminded me that I really want to do the Foamies again this year.

A few people spoke up in favor of it the last time I mentioned them, and since the Oscars are but a few short months away, I was hoping we could get a thread going for nominations?

(For newbies, the Foamies are the Buffista Movie Awards, started last year by Angus.)

Last year's the Foamies thread.

Occam would suggest, however, that it's not

When did Occam register? t /picture an emoticon there; I refuse to use one

I'm wondering what the interpersonal online expectations are, and why they seem to be so different from meatspace expectations.

I'm quite new to the Internet-community-ing, and the Buffistas are the only place I've ever posted in. My expectations (and the way I try to behave) are pretty much based on 'what would I do if those people were actually in front of me'. I'm talking to people, after all, not to the screen and the computer-resident-demons.

Okay, ita and Nilly express it perfectly for me. I remember someone in Firefly saying something like (and I'm paraphrasing PLUS I truly don't remember who said it) "I expect to fight on discussion boards," implying that they're more a place to go debate and argue and see who wins.

But that isn't what we evolved into, and I think we're actively trying to maintain what we evolved into. Which is, as I see it, a community that's remarkably similar to a (nice) meatspace community. Meaning, we *know* each other -- at least a good handful of us do -- and we *like* each other. Look at all the Buffistas in the same cities who get together with each other. Look at the F2F. And all the random packages, etc.

Maybe the difference is just that we aren't like other discussion boards -- we've moved past that concept, and maybe that's what causes friction with new people who don't know what to expect.

Last year's the Foamies thread.

Isn't she just the Nillyest?

t Nillylove

Okay, ita and Nilly express it perfectly for me. I remember someone in Firefly saying something like (and I'm paraphrasing PLUS I truly don't remember who said it) "I expect to fight on discussion boards," implying that they're more a place to go debate and argue and see who wins.

We certainly are very much about the discussion and debate, though.

We just aren't wholly defined by our little struggles and flamewars. Instead we have discussion and debate that is civilised and oriented with a vague goal towards community, and that's kind of, isn't it, basic to the definition of this board? It can't change now.

Instead we have discussion and debate that is civilised and oriented with a vague goal towards community, and that's kind of, isn't it, basic to the definition of this board? It can't change now.

In the past we've had some very intense debates/discussions (on hot topics like abortion and rape) that were very respectful even though people came from all parts of the spectrum. I think the fact that we had those kind of discussions in a civilized way reinforced our sense of community. That this was rare, and that this was something we chose. We defined ourselves in part by our ability to have those kind of talks, and chose those values.

We defined ourselves in part by our ability to have those kind of talks, and chose those values.

This is a big part of why I post (occasionally) and read (much more frequently) here. And I think that a group of people can say, "This is how things work here." It's not like anyone's saying that new folks shouldn't join (at least, not that I'm seeing), just that they should have the courtesy to look at what they're joining and the common sense to see if it's a community that they'd enjoy participating in.

The idea that other boards are open to different standards of behavior seems like a non-issue, especially once it's been pointed out to the uncivil that this board is not. It reminds me of a UNC basketball game. One of the opposing team members got injured, and the UNC fans cheered. Dean Smith (then UNC's coach) walked out onto the playing floor, turned to the UNC fans and just looked at them until they quieted down. Then he said, "We. Don't. Do. That."

I've only been here a few months, but one of the big reasons I like being here is that we don't do that.