This is a weird post to write, so I'll start with the easy stuff:

1. ITA agree with both Burrell and msbelle about thread proliferation. So I won't repeat, except to say, "What they said."

And logical outgrowths? We're way past that now. Music isn't more or less logical than Movies or Politics or Morris Dancing. Everything past Buffy/Angel/Firefly is arbitrary.

Absolutely! Either we just discuss ME shows, or most things are fair game. Lyra, I don't see how music is any more or less a logical outgrowth than basketweaving. Because to say it is, is to make a value judgment on what is entertaining. Sure, music is entertaining. But so is nattering with friends, and eating, and alcohol and a whole bunch of other stuff. As ita said, it is arbitrary.

The more we bifurcate, the bigger we get, the more people will "Oh, I just can't go in there ... I don't have the time" and "Oh, I never leave here ... I don't have the time", and it will become a very different place.

Again with the totally AGREE here.

now, the weird part, I do spend most of my reading time in Natter or in show threads when there are new episodes being shown. In a strange way, I have this emotional reaction to people saying, "OH! Too much Natter! I can't be there! I don't grok natter! I can't deal." Each new thread feels like a rejection of natter to me, which is weird. It's almost as if saying, "OH! I only want this part of the conversation and I want it conveniently packaged for me somewhere else."

Obviously these are my issues.

To build on Jim's Natter as a pub metaphor. Sure it's a pub. And sometimes it's really noisy. But often it isn't. And just as when I see my friends at a bar, when I walk in, I don't make them go back over everything else they've said all evening. Sure I miss out on some great stuff in natter. But I miss out on great stuff with those bar conversations too.

Each balkanizing sub interest thread (except for the West Coast Watch-N-Post --- just kidding) is almost a rejection of the community at large to me. It's like saying, "Nope. Forget it. I don't want to deal with your CRAP, but I would like to hear about only this."

Feh.

So, I vote for the Assholes Thread, where we Assholes can be Assholes to each other, with the understanding that no hothouse flowers will cry and stomp off and say, "I'm leaving forever!" So that people will collectively say, "No, please don't go, we're begging you to stay, and we're sorry we were so passionate. Here, have some white bread."

Actually, I'm all for this. No surprise there, I guess.

But the Assholes thread should be name Brown Wrapper.

My thoughts on thread proliferation. I view this place as a social gathering with Natter being the main room where all topics are discussed in a polite sociable manner. We talk about politics, religion, cooking, and each other’s life events. The show discussions are in different rooms so that the unspoiled and viewing delayed participants can be safe from inadvertent spoilage. The in-depth discussions on literature, music and so forth are groups that have wandered off to the patio to talk amongst themselves.

I’m only subscribed to half of the center column threads, so in effect missing half the party. In those threads I have to skip madly to keep up. I have a wide variety of interests so I like everything being discussed in Natter. I fear if too many groups wander off to the patio to talk amongst themselves there will be no one left at the party.

I have many friends and loved ones with vastly opposing views from mine and somehow we can discuss sex, politics, and religion without ever shouting or fighting. I don’t get why this should be a problem.

An awful lot of words to just say I would like to keep the thread growth to a minimum.

Brown Wrapper - snerk

"OH! Too much Natter! I can't be there! I don't grok natter! I can't deal." Each new thread feels like a rejection of natter to me, which is weird. It's almost as if saying, "OH! I only want this part of the conversation and I want it conveniently packaged for me somewhere else."

Oh, God. That's awful.

I don't keep up with Natter because it goes too fast for me to keep up with. So it's nice to drop in sometimes, and I know that it's full of cool and interesting people, but there's no way in hell that I can read all the posts that have happened since last I posted - so I'm generally conscious that I'm bouncing in rudely and interrupting, and that somebody may very well have just announced that such-and-such a trauma happened to them this morning and I've missed it because I only went back 20 posts. But this is my issue, and it's why I don't get into Natter very often. Not out of a rejection of the people in Natter, but out of a consciousness that I'm not contributing fully and am effectively interrupting.

wrt the Music thread - it seems fair enough to me, since there are people wanting it (and music is showcased in the shows, come to think of it, although I know that's reaching) and I don't see it as less reasonable than Literary. (Although it isn't a thread I'd be using much myself.)But I do take your point about feeling that there are too many threads.

A thread about Movies I would like, but not at the expense of anyone else's comfort here. Heck, if I need to talk movies, I can get my arse over to Filmunlimited without needing to undermine the Buffista atmosphere.

So if the Movies thing is even still under consideration, let me retract my 'Yes' - my attraction to the idea is, I think, not so strong as the discomfort with the idea that other people have voiced.

(I'd still be comfortable with a HoYay thread to replace PPO and dueSouth, if that's on the cards as a means of reducing the number of threads)

It's almost as if saying, "OH! I only want this part of the conversation and I want it conveniently packaged for me somewhere else."

(Funny... this is Natter about Natter)
When I said I hadn't the stamina, I was meaning I couldn't keep up. When I can't keep up, I don't feel like I can add anything meaningful to a conversation, for fear that I'll be annoying and repeat what has already been said. The issue for me isn't that I wasn't that I wanted it conveniently packaged. I just want to participate without feeling like a shmuck.

Some thoughts:

• My experience of Gar and Caroma arguing was like that Gary Larson cartoon -- "blah blah blah Haiti blah blah Aristide blah blah blah" and I just skipped past it, but I started to actually notice it when it got more personal. I wish it hadn't, but I think the outcome, once namecalling got started, was actually surprisingly good. It reached a climax then stopped. I wished it hadn't reached that climax, but it didn't ruin the board for me.
• Whose politics? Despite the fact I watch West Wing, I'm not happy if it's going to just be a US Politics thread. Won't somebody think of the Unamericans?
• When a TTT thread was proposed, Angus said, jokingly "Good, because all us hobbitocidal people won't have to put up with your rantings" or the like. I mean I know it was meant in fun, but there's an interesting point there. Are we creating new threads because people in the "I love X" group love the subject matter so much, or are we creating the thread because people in the "I hate X" group want it ghettoised? That's kind of sad.
• Can we stop saying "shit where you eat" quite so much? It makes me want to retch every time I read it.
• Can we stop saying "when there's no more Buffy and Angel" quite so much? It makes me want to cry every time I read it.
• I'm pro general music and movie threads, but in a weird way I never really understood how Smallville and Due South threads got started. Is the criterion just "significant numbers of Buffistas like a certain thing"? Because see above with the like-it/get-it-out-of-Natter test.
• If we're going to have music and movie threads, though, why not a TV thread?

Whose politics? Despite the fact I watch West Wing, I'm not happy if it's going to just be a US Politics thread. Won't somebody think of the Unamericans?

I'll talk Australian politics with you, John. You may have to remind me of some of the names, though.

I don't keep up with Natter because it goes too fast for me to keep up with. So it's nice to drop in sometimes, and I know that it's full of cool and interesting people, but there's no way in hell that I can read all the posts that have happened since last I posted - so I'm generally conscious that I'm bouncing in rudely and interrupting, and that somebody may very well have just announced that such-and-such a trauma happened to them this morning and I've missed it because I only went back 20 posts. But this is my issue, and it's why I don't get into Natter very often. Not out of a rejection of the people in Natter, but out of a consciousness that I'm not contributing fully and am effectively interrupting.

I wanted to say something like this, but I post in natter more than FayJay. But still, I am always feeling like I am interrupting. So I don't think we are rejecting the Buffistas by not being able to natter. I think it is just that perhaps the more shy among us feel inhibited about skipping and then posting. I know it is me, and that everyone does it, it just feels weird. But I don't want anyone to feel that I am rejecting Buffistas, it is more that I wish I could talk more and smaller threads might give me a chance to do so.

Smallville and Due South were made in the WX days, to move specific HoYay out of the way, back when we were freewheeling and fancy free.

And then they came here.