Gracias. I have to go edit a review of Phish.

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f.y.i.: ita's official warning: ita "Firefly 2: You Can't Take the Sky From Me." Dec 26, 2002 7:49:19 pm EST

I have to go edit a review of Phish.

I'm sorry.

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But. You guys have been very clear since back when we were on TT that you do not want a "typical Internet tone." You/We have historically valued kindness extremely highly, and he was told that several times. I don't think the banning was out of place.

I think Lyra Jane's point is very useful here. This is why we had a long discussion about disciplinary procedures before we created the Phoenix board. It was a conscious decision to not make the rules too formal. It was conscious to make the disciplinary process transparent and out in the community.

But most of all it was decided by people who had seen too many favorite communities go down in flames that we would insist on a level of civility rarely fostered in online communities.

Most relevant points have been discussed (and I welcome Mike's contributions here). If I could suggest a few things that we could carry forward from this discussion...

1. List the stompy feet in the FAQ.

2. Note when disciplinary discussions have moved to the Bureaucracy board.

3. Make note in the thread where the offenses have occurred that stomping has gone on.

4. Do what Cindy did - chronicle repeated abuses. Document.

5. The consensus red flags are fairly clear and understood: (1) personal attacks, and (2) unwillingness to change or modify behavior.

We should feel a clench in the stomach to ban or even suspend somebody. It shouldn't be reflexive. However, the Great Buffista Experiment has always posited civility as among the first virtues and (as Lyra Jane noted) we've built this community upon that cornerstone.

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Which reminds me -- admins? You do have access to the admin login -- it has the same password as the e-mail.

I'll be dipped. it works. Should've thought of trying that.

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most of us are unaware of any backchannel Admin/Mieskie stuff that went on.

Was there any besides the letter DX sent along with the suspension? Official Stomping should be noted in Bureaucracy, like ita did when she first warned him. I would have liked to see the text of the e-mail, too, or use a standard warning.

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The text of the e-mail is in the Firefly thread, Noumenon.

And if there was back-channel, I wasn't in on it.

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DXM's e-mail: DXMachina "Firefly 2: You Can't Take the Sky From Me." Jan 1, 2003 12:30:45 pm EST

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I do think there is such a thing as a core Buffisita.

Agreed agreed agreed. I think when I sometimes say I feel like a peripheral Buffista, what I mean is that I'm not part of the core. But as so many of y'all have said, you ARE what you FEEL like, and if any lurkers think of themselves as Buffistas because they read here, they are one, if only in their hearts.

From Hec:

1. List the stompy feet in the FAQ.

2. Note when disciplinary discussions have moved to the Bureaucracy board.

3. Make note in the thread where the offenses have occurred that stomping has gone on.

4. Do what Cindy did - chronicle repeated abuses. Document.

5. The consensus red flags are fairly clear and understood: (1) personal attacks, and (2) unwillingness to change or modify behavior.

All of this is seconded. I'd also like to suggest that (4) become part of our official procedure -- when someone is warned, a post in bureaucracy is made linking to their offensive posts. Oh, and from the etiquette, Stompy Foot item:

and they having smiting capability

Ouch. This should be "they have." Sorry.

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X-ish post with RL: Alrighty. Do I deserve a wrist-slap for my tone? :)

Dude, you just read me out of context. There's no problem.

I hate people to think that there's some sort of probationary period before you get to be a Buffista.

I still disagree. There's absolutely no enforced probationary period-- but we are not just a posting board, we are a community. And as with any community, there must be a transition from just-pulled-up new person to established member of the community. It's just how this works, for club, circle of workers, online posting board, or any other type of community. It's *not* a limitation; it's a fact. -- And I'd not name names; but I can think of several people who came here post- Joss' post, and they're already working their way in rapidly. Buffista Spirit Babies, dude.

Personally I'm getting frustrated that the whole old school/new school "real" buffista thing is getting thrown around.

I don't think it is being thrown around! I don't think you will find anyone in this thread who will argue with you and tell you that someone can't be a Real Buffista until they've been here x months, or posted in y threads z number of times, or paid money for the board, or anything! I don't think that's even a question. Every opinion I've read expressed in this thread seemed firmly of the opinion that that was A Bad Policy.

I'm just saying that a certain measure of feeling as though you don't entirely fit in yet, when you haven't yet learned all the expressions and met all the people and felt as though they know you, is not a shock horror unhealthy thing to feel. I felt it. Other people felt it. It's not that we are unwelcoming to new people; it's a natural, unavoidable consequence of being a community.

Whether there are Very Core Buffistas, maybe, sure. People who do a lot of work, stompy or coding or contribute really stunningly clever posts that always make you sit up and listen-- again, that's another thing that comes with being in any community. There will be people who are sorted by their own outputs as being of a shinier class than the rest of us; but-- not that an argument about who-are-the-very-core-Buffistas should ever really crop up--let's keep that designation to individual perceptions. 'Cause it's gonna be an individual perceptions thing.

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This is frustrating, it pushes buttons. Not to mention the fact I'm sleep deprived and pmsing and so not thinking straight so I think I'm going to just walk away until I can get my head on straight.

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