I don't think we will turn into TWoP, we are too self conscious about making someone feel uncomfortable or about banning someone.

However, when one user is making other users so uncomfortable that they avoid a thread and it impedes their enjoyment of the board, then we do have to take some kind of action.

We weren't tyrannts. We explained, over and over, as politely as possible, to Mieskie what the proper etiquette is for this board. The Buffistas are very liberal in what we allow, it doesn't take much to be polite. He chose to insult others, he chose to be rude, he chose not to be nice. All actions have consequences, including his.

There is something, though, that I'm not sure how to say, so, just gonna say it.

Some folks here ARE oversensitive to a fault. Intense discussion that makes me feel invigorated, may make others avoid a thread or make a quip that grates the fuck out of my nerves in order to spank or shut a discussion down. I've seen it.

Because people are, well, people, what I see as intense can be seen as tension by others. Things I think are funny rants can be seen as mean-spirited attacks by others.

If a group of ten people see a discussion as cruel arguments, and a group of ten people see a discussion as spirited debate, where do we find the balance?

Well, right here in Bureaucracy. I heard perhaps two voices defending Mieskie. If there'd been even a plurality, I doubt we would have taken action.

Yes, we do all have sensitivity thresholds, but I think so far we've dealt. Then again, I may be one of the oversensitive ones.

First off, I'd like to note that I am grooving to Afghan Whigs as I type this. This ain't about regret/it's when I tell the truth...

If a group of ten people see a discussion as cruel arguments, and a group of ten people see a discussion as spirited debate, where do we find the balance?

And yeah, you have a very valid point, and to tell the truth, it's one of the reasons I was inclined to let things slide for a bit. I just wanted to watch for a bit to see if it was a case of Mieskie having a bad day, or people overreacting, or what have you. Lord knows I've been an asshole enough in enough contexts to cut other people slack.

That being said, personal attacks have always been my barometer, and there was plenty of that going on, and it was clear after a bit there was a pattern.

I guess the bottom line is when it becomes utterly clear the situation isn't going to change, and is just going to poison the board, that's when action gets taken. Unfortunately, to do that fairly, it means putting up with it for a bit.

I fled from the FF thread so I can't really comment on the content of the offending posts. It did appear to me from the discussion here that every effort was made to be fair. I love spirited debate, but I have no tolerance for personal attacks or posts which only intend to upset. It will be a pleasure to go back to enjoying discussion on the content of Firefly and the campaign.

In the words of William the Bloody...

I prefer not to think of such dark, ugly business at all.

I think the bottom line is personal attacks. Opinions, strong feelings, porn--the tolerance for these will vary from poster to poster, but not attacking each other for these varied opinions is one of the baselines which makes this community special.

Word, scrappy. Spirited debate is one thing, and Allyson's right, there were some voices raised during some of the arguments about rape in the Buffy threads. That said, most of the posters still made an effort to disengage their investment in the topic from anger at the people they were arguing with.

There are posters here whom I don't always agree with, because sometimes they say things I find personally offensive. However I don't generally get the sense they mean to offend me personally, and if called upon it they would apologize.

m. was a problem not because he said offensive things, but because he intended to offend. There are online forums where such behavior is not only appropriate, but expected: the Phoenix Board is not one of them.

On a personal level, I fail to see why anyone would want to post here, if they thought we were stupid and hypersensitive. What's the attraction? Sigh.

Cindy: thanks for the Nilly. Laid out like that, it's clear m. was given many opportunities to modify his behavior, and that he consistently offended the spirit of the board. I'm perfectly content with the stomping.

And yes, please do leave his final post in place. We're not in the habit of censoring and I'd rather we not start if avoidable.

Leave the last post. We shouldn't be afraid of controversy, we should only be proud of our reaction to it.

there were some voices raised during some of the arguments about rape in the Buffy threads. That said, most of the posters still made an effort to disengage their investment in the topic from anger at the people they were arguing with.

Yes, and more importantly, people apologized when they realized or had it pointed out to them that they had offended someone.

I just completely agree with Allyson, again. Which is handy, because she's said it all so well already!

I'll just add that on the mailing list I co-mod for a bunch of Usenet oldtimers, one of our posters went batshit unexpectedly. As another of the co-mods put it, "We're just hoping that another rock falls on his head and snaps him out of it." Political arguments turned into personal attacks, and even posts on neutral subjects returned again and again to his sense of aggrievedness.

He was eventually asked to take a leave from the list, but if you ask me, it was about a month and a half after he should have been asked. (In fact, one of the other co-mods said after the first outbreak "oh, it's over now, nothing more to worry about." When I saw said co-mod shortly after the guy got suspended, I did the Dance of Smug Rightness and sang a little song.) After he left, you could practically hear the exhale of relief on the lists, and people who hadn't posted in weeks started posting again. Birds sang. The sun shone. And it all could have happened right after the first or second time he started calling other posters "fucking idiots" rather than the fourth or fifth time if the other co-mods hadn't been overly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm tired and I doubt I'm expressing myself as coherently as I could, but the point I'm trying to make is this -- being too nice to disruptive posters is just as damaging as being too mean to them. I think the tack that has been taken with mieskie is the right one, and I don't feel even the slightest qualm about it.