That said, Joss' last post just showed up on a mailing list I'm on. It's attributed to Joss but the poster doesn't know where it came from. This list is pretty savvy, articulate, and courteous (it's a Jossiverse-focused list sprouted off of Dunnetwork, the grande dame of Dunnett communities). Do I enlighten them, or just let it go?

This *is* something I'd wondered about, when some of Tim's stuff was quoted on Watcher Girls and attributed to a blog on Whedoneque.

I, umm, let it go.

Back when we had the "idiots" discussion and several members objected to his liberal use of the term, his response was that he didn't care if he had stepped on anyone's toes.

That's what is so very clear, to me, and I don't understand why the boot wasn't given.

CLEARLY, everyone who regularly posts at this site feels a sense of community (to differing degrees), and a founding block of the community is mutual respect.

SEVERAL times, this person has said, "I don't care if I've offended anyone." Also, "...too many hyper-sensitive people here"

Never apologizes, or takes responsibility for words. Not ever. "We" are the problem, "we" are hypocrites.

This person does NOT respect anyone else, here. That's key. That's a building block. He clearly thinks himself above us, and has insulted the board, and cares not for the feelings of others.

I don't understand why there's any argument.

It's done. Ignore. Stop posting. This person will likely not learn life lessons about playing well and sharing the toys in the sandbox. This person entered our house, and pissed on the drapes, and called us party poopers for telling him to clean it up.

If we're hypocrites, and hyper-sensitive, and idiots...why is he still posting here? We don't answer to him. If he were never born, there would be Buffistas. This is an established community with social norms. We've explained that picking his nose and eating it during dinner is not part of our social norm, but instead of apologizing and moving on, he flicked the booger in our watercress.

And what do we do? Continue having polite conversation with him and eating around the booger.

I think that it is admirable to discuss this with fervor, now. I do. But pretty soon, we'll spend more time discussing when it's appropriate to show booger flingers the door, and less time eating dinner. Then we'll all starve.

Signed,

Chick with Sandwich Board Ringing Bell Screaming THE END IS NEAR!!!!

I think that it is admirable to discuss this with fervor, now. I do. But pretty soon, we'll spend more time discussing when it's appropriate to show booger flingers the door, and less time eating dinner. Then we'll all starve.

It was our first real instance of this.

Took us a while to actually say anything, but when we did, it took the length of my commute for action to happen.

Which, really, isn't too bad, considering our track record on action in the past. Let this be a lessoncakes.

Didn't mean to Chicken Little on ya.

Didn't mean to Chicken Little on ya.

Eh, don't think I hadn't thought it. I was thinking it the whole way home.

Which is why I was relieved as hell to see it basically out in the open and resolved (partially) when I got back here.

I was surprised that he didn't get more of a negative reaction from you guys when he first began posting.

That's because our first reaction is, correctly I believe, Do Not Feed the Energy Creature (DNFtEC).

Also, even though I've read Usenet humorfiles about trolls, I was all "Troll? What troll? Was that the troll?" for like 1000 posts. (Read New takes me to Bureaucracy before Firefly, I guess to forearm me.) I was expecting more like averagejoe, because I'm inexperienced.

Actually, I think these are good test cases for us to learn how to patrol our beat.

For one, you can dissect the behavior at length and offer booger/watercress metaphors, because there's only one. For another, it's not like there's three voting for and three against. It's more like three against and three feeling angst over being against. So no deep divisions.

As another of the dreaded newbies, all I have to say is... well, I'm late, and pretty much every aspect of the discussion has already been mentioned. But I was thinking that a good way to articulate why some behaviours are more acceptable than others is to compare it to a real-life meeting. Explain to whoever has doubts: "imagine that, instead of chatting on this cyberspace thing, you're meeting these people on real life, hanging out or having dinner. If it's something that you'd consider inappropiate in such a face-to-face situation, then it's probably inappropiate here too".

(Actually, I think that this was one of the first rules of thumb in the netiquette manuals that I read when I started using the net, back when people still knew what "netiquette" was...)

Oh, and if you want to boot this... erm, problematic individual, I for one have no problem with it.

Gosh. 180+ posts of intresting discussion and wise words.

Buffistas rock like a rocking thing. I'm short of words to express how wonderfully cool it is that this kind of discussion can actually happen: it's not something I've found anywhere else. I guess it's the community at work, and it's wonderful.

Oh, now I'm getting silly and emotional and teary. Perhaps what I'm trying to say is: thank you for creating somewhere so great.

t /off-topic expressions of wonderfulness by relative newbie

Please have respect for our there-when-you-got-there mores. If you offend them without having intended to, we will tell you, politely, as we do and did; then, your path is (I feel) to absolutely take a polite, apologetic tone. If you feel you were warned too hastily, or within a double standard, you absolutely may argue with us; but your basic tone *must* be a polite one. This is our sandbox. You are the newbie. Argue; but you must be brilliant to make us change our minds about something we've already had sixty thousand posts in the Bureaucracy thread about; but, then again, it is possible. Be polite and brilliant. Certainly. Surprise us.

May I just say that RL is one of the wisest people I know--of any age. BTW, I'm glad to see the chibi-lizard around. Except for the discussions which are potentially bawdy from the get-go (Bitches, etc.), I see no reason why age should keep anyone from joining our discussions. I have met some very articulate and fascinating people who just happened to be eight, or ten, or what-have-you.

I think that if someone oversteps a boundary (by accident or no), that a polite correction from a member or several members of the community very often works. I've seen this happen several times, and with members who've been here since the beginning and with people who have just joined. As people have said, it's the response to this kind of on-thread check that helps us differentiate clueless from having-a-bad-day-and-self-censors-are-shot from genuine trolls.

At the risk of being repetitive, I have to say how damned much I love you folks. Nearly 200 posts here since I last looked, and this discussion just speaks volumes about what bloody splendid people the Buffistas, old and new, really are. This is why I cherish this place and its values so much. t /inarticulate & welling up with affection.

Let me also apologise for throwing a tizzy fit earlier on - the aftermath of The Two Towers had me feeling rather more emotional than need be, and so I was OverReaction!Gal. How tedious. I am reasonably sure that describing myself as 'buxom' and using the phrase 'Gay Vampire Snuff Porn', provocative though it be, is not enough for anyone to base their style of conversation around. So I've gotten over myself. ;o)

I have mixed feelings about the poster in question, but for me it boils down to respect, both for members of the community and also for people in general - MT et al. The thing that I've found upsetting/jarring is what I perceive as casual disparagement of people, but this may be a YMMV issue and I'm not waving the flag of banning. Happy to go with general consensus whatever it may be.

And I'd like to reiterate how cool it is that so many really nice new folks have shown up over the past couple of weeks. (Including Ickle!Lizard! Bless!) It's cooler than Samuel L Jackson in shades. In a freezer. In the arctic. I love this place and I get a vicarious thrill about other people discovering it for the first time. It's like having visitors I can whisk around London and show my favourite places and get excited about them getting it. But, equally, being really upset if they piss on it or just look at it blankly. 'Cause it's worth celebrating, this board. It's a lovely thing in an often-unlovely world.

t /sappy.