I think a yarmulke would definitely be a cultural symbol, more than a religious one. The religious commandment is just for men to cover their heads -- the yarmulke is just one way to do it. (I also think it's relatively recent -- I've seen pictures of my grandfather's bar mitzvah, and none of the men are wearing yarmulkes -- they're all wearing this sort of fabric hat that covers a lot more of their heads.)

I can definitely see the reasoning for classifying the Star of David as a religious symbol, but I can't see the reasoning for saying that that the star of David and the cross are religious, but the star and crescent is cultural. Seems like all those go in the same category.

But, I got to spend a day with msbelle and mac! OH MY GOD! He's adorable. So adorable that you want to scoop him up and feed him soup and swing him around and teach him to jump on the bed.

And yet, still no pictures.

I always pronounce my name the Spanish way. I wish some more Americans would give that a shot.

I always say your name with the T, fyi. In English, but definitely with a T.

I can definitely see the reasoning for classifying the Star of David as a religious symbol, but I can't see the reasoning for saying that that the star of David and the cross are religious, but the star and crescent is cultural. Seems like all those go in the same category.

Yeah, I think so, too. If anything, wouldn't the cross be the most religious symbol among them? I don't see the distinction they're making.

Timelies all!

Quiet day here. Probably do some shopping/browsing, watch some tapes, etc.

The distinction between a menorah with candles and one without candles is interesting.

Yeah. It takes out the miracle, I guess?

I can definitely see the reasoning for classifying the Star of David as a religious symbol, but I can't see the reasoning for saying that that the star of David and the cross are religious, but the star and crescent is cultural. Seems like all those go in the same category.

I agree. On the other hand, it's good to see school systems trying to arrive at something workable.

If I were king of the forest, they would present both cultural and sacred symbols in a secular, educational context (i.e. This is how these people celebrate this holiday and how it got its start; here are their symbols, and here are the common meanings of those symbols). Many holidays are holy days, and it seems silly to teach about them at all, if you're only going to present the secular meaning of them. I am not afraid of my kids learning about other religions. I'm afraid of them not learning about them.

And on a totally silly note...Besides, I believe Jesus is real and alive, but an awful lot of people belief that's a myth/legend. Meanwhile, an awful lot of people believe Santa Claus is real and alive, while I believe that's a myth/legend. And having been a Santa Claus true believer at one point, and having met more of them in my lifetime than I can count, I can tell you their utter conviction about him makes a mockery out of the faith of even the most fanatical Christians I've ever met. I think the Santa believers just get to have their symbol because they're cuter than the rest of us. It's not fair.

Yeah, I think so, too. If anything, wouldn't the cross be the most religious symbol among them? I don't see the distinction they're making.

Yes, but I'm not getting what you're not getting. They're making a distinction between religious holiday symbols and cultural holiday symbols. The cross is on that list of the religious symbols. I think Hil just found it funny that both the Star of David and the Cross were out of bounds (because they're religious), but the Star and Crescent isn't out of bounds.

You could actually make an argument that the cross itself (or crucifix) is not a religious symbol. The biggest dispute isn't whether this person existed, or even whether or not the Romans crucified him (and countless others). The resurrection is the big, religious point. Maybe some people are wearing crosses to commemorate the crucifixion of Yacov, the tax protest organizer. Okay, so nobody would buy it (except maybe those Santa believers -- they're cute, but easy to trick), but you could argue it.

If I were king of the forest, they would present both cultural and sacred symbols in a secular, educational context (i.e. This is how these people celebrate this holiday and how it got its start; here are their symbols, and here are the common meanings of those symbols).

This district is saying that the religious symbols are allowed in an educational context, just not as hallway decorations and stuff.

Lee, I'll LJ some pics, but I have no way of transferring the files right now because I don't have a cable or card reader with me.

I get why the star and crescent are considered secular, and wikipedia puts a more concrete form to it:

The crescent was the symbol of the Sassanian Empire of Persia (Iran) and is prominently displayed on the crowns of its rulers. After the Arab conquest of that empire in 651 CE, it was gradually adopted by later caliphates and Muslim rulers as an established and recognized symbol of power in Western Asia. It was also a symbol of the Ottoman Empire. Though the crescent was originally a secular symbol of authority for Muslim rulers, it is now often used to symbolize the Islamic faith. However, it should be noted that the crescent was not a symbol used for Islam by Muhammad or any other early Muslim rulers, as the Islamic religion is, in fact, against appointing "Holy Symbols" (so that during the early centuries of Islam, Muslim authorities simply didn't want any geometric symbols to be used to symbolize Islam, in the way that the cross symbolizes Christianity, the menorah was a commonly-occurring symbol of Judaism, etc.).

It's always something I've seen associated with Muslim countries, and very rarely (that's me leaving wiggle room, but I can't think of occasions) with Muslims. Unlike the Star of David or cross which I've seen worn extensively by the respective faith's adherents.

But don't mosques usually have a crescent symbol on top?

I think that's regional, and a fairly cursory google indicates it's an Ottoman thing.

It may in effect be associated with the religion, but I can see how it's considered different from the other two symbols.

I'm trying to think of Jewish or Christian parallels, but am coming up quite blank. I guess it's possible to interpret the l'chaim symbol as kinda loosely tied, but if that it would be something that drifted away from a religious interpretation (and I feel I'm stretching it to say that) as opposed to something that drifted into one by virtue of constant proximity.