Oh, Pacey! You blind idiot. Can't you see she doesn't love you?

Spike ,'Help'


Natter 48 Contiguous States of Denial  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Hil R. - Dec 16, 2006 6:42:06 am PST #6600 of 10007
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

If I were king of the forest, they would present both cultural and sacred symbols in a secular, educational context (i.e. This is how these people celebrate this holiday and how it got its start; here are their symbols, and here are the common meanings of those symbols).

This district is saying that the religious symbols are allowed in an educational context, just not as hallway decorations and stuff.


Kat - Dec 16, 2006 7:04:32 am PST #6601 of 10007
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

Lee, I'll LJ some pics, but I have no way of transferring the files right now because I don't have a cable or card reader with me.


§ ita § - Dec 16, 2006 7:04:50 am PST #6602 of 10007
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I get why the star and crescent are considered secular, and wikipedia puts a more concrete form to it:

The crescent was the symbol of the Sassanian Empire of Persia (Iran) and is prominently displayed on the crowns of its rulers. After the Arab conquest of that empire in 651 CE, it was gradually adopted by later caliphates and Muslim rulers as an established and recognized symbol of power in Western Asia. It was also a symbol of the Ottoman Empire. Though the crescent was originally a secular symbol of authority for Muslim rulers, it is now often used to symbolize the Islamic faith. However, it should be noted that the crescent was not a symbol used for Islam by Muhammad or any other early Muslim rulers, as the Islamic religion is, in fact, against appointing "Holy Symbols" (so that during the early centuries of Islam, Muslim authorities simply didn't want any geometric symbols to be used to symbolize Islam, in the way that the cross symbolizes Christianity, the menorah was a commonly-occurring symbol of Judaism, etc.).

It's always something I've seen associated with Muslim countries, and very rarely (that's me leaving wiggle room, but I can't think of occasions) with Muslims. Unlike the Star of David or cross which I've seen worn extensively by the respective faith's adherents.


Hil R. - Dec 16, 2006 7:12:52 am PST #6603 of 10007
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

But don't mosques usually have a crescent symbol on top?


§ ita § - Dec 16, 2006 7:28:09 am PST #6604 of 10007
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think that's regional, and a fairly cursory google indicates it's an Ottoman thing.

It may in effect be associated with the religion, but I can see how it's considered different from the other two symbols.

I'm trying to think of Jewish or Christian parallels, but am coming up quite blank. I guess it's possible to interpret the l'chaim symbol as kinda loosely tied, but if that it would be something that drifted away from a religious interpretation (and I feel I'm stretching it to say that) as opposed to something that drifted into one by virtue of constant proximity.


Ginger - Dec 16, 2006 7:52:19 am PST #6605 of 10007
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

And having been a Santa Claus true believer at one point, and having met more of them in my lifetime than I can count, I can tell you their utter conviction about him makes a mockery out of the faith of even the most fanatical Christians I've ever met.

Surely you're not implying that there's no Santa Claus.

"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! How dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence.


Jesse - Dec 16, 2006 7:58:25 am PST #6606 of 10007
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

My aunt told a great story at Thanksgiving about my 9-year-old cousin asking her about Santa. She confirmed his suspicions, but told him that now he has to join with the grownups in not ruining it for the little kids. It was really sweet.


§ ita § - Dec 16, 2006 8:01:07 am PST #6607 of 10007
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence.

Romance? Have I been hearing about the wrong Santa?

I fail to get the point behind believing Santa's real, so don't leave your kids with me if you need them unabused. I'm likely to slip and hard.

I guess it's because I never believed that I can't imagine what believing could add.


Topic!Cindy - Dec 16, 2006 8:03:58 am PST #6608 of 10007
What is even happening?

Romance? Have I been hearing about the wrong Santa?

Haven't you heard about the one who's always kissing Mommy?


Kat - Dec 16, 2006 8:07:27 am PST #6609 of 10007
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

Jesse! are you AIMable?