I'm been skimming like mad (I think I have a sleeping sickeness -- I conked out for two hours this morning, and yesterday slept more than three hours on the chair in the living room with the TV on and the kids playing).

Hugs and vibes and ~ma all around.

Although I know there are people out there who believe that gay marriage undermines the institution of marriage in general (which I've always read as holy union! between man and woman!), there are others who claim that gay marriage opens up different issues when it comes to defining a family, and what that means for the legal system and aspects of it.

Health insurance, for one. I think there's a fear that if a gay couple becomes eligible for benefits, there will be a mad rush of people everywhere marrying on bogus terms to claim benefits. Me and a platonic girlfriend, for instance.

I think that argument is bullshit, but that's one of the most common reasons I've read.

::loves on Aimee just because::

Health insurance, for one. I think there's a fear that if a gay couple becomes eligible for benefits, there will be a mad rush of people everywhere marrying on bogus terms to claim benefits. Me and a platonic girlfriend, for instance.

I think that argument is bullshit, but that's one of the most common reasons I've read

It's a bullshit argument, but it also begs the question: How have we as a technologically advanced society come to allow health care to be a luxury? And isn't that, in and of itself, in some way obscene?

Health insurance, for one. I think there's a fear that if a gay couple becomes eligible for benefits, there will be a mad rush of people everywhere marrying on bogus terms to claim benefits. Me and a platonic girlfriend, for instance.

Right, because it's so much easier to be fake gay-married than to be fake het-married, if you're only in it for the health insurance.

And I know I just above said that personal anecdotes are not useful to critical arguments, but when DH and I first moved here, I couldn't be added to his health insurance until we got married, despite having been together for 5 years. If he'd been a woman, we could have claimed same-sex domestic partner status from the get-go. So I really fail to see how legalizing gay marriage will make it easier for people to cheat on their insurance forms that way.

Of course, I also think we should just have universal health care, which would solve the problem from both ends.

How have we as a technologically advanced society come to allow health care to be a luxury? And isn't that, in and of itself, in some way obscene?

So much this. Exactly. It *is* obscene, and criminal. (At least in my personal version of ethics, which is different than morality, I know, but still.)

As conservative as I can be on some issues, the idea that any kind of a loving family is not okay fills me with rage. There are few enough loving families in the first place, and as Cindy pointed out, the number of het marriages/families that make a mockery of the institution is legion.

Where did my high horse come from? I didn't even see it ride in...

It's in UR kitchen, eatin' UR cake.

::snorts cake out my nose, which is quite messy::

Never in one million years would I compromise my values or morals just because it might not make me a clear thinker.

Are you sure your classmate isn't George Bush?

I have a friend who studied biology and the evolutionary evidence points to the possiblity(when you consider all primates) that humans aren't physiologically built for monogomy. I don't know all the details, but the heterosexual, modern marriage is pretty much a blip on the time line of human relationships. It evolved because of child-bearing/rearing, etc. and has worked out mostly.

We have our tree up. It's decorated-from waist-high on up, thanks to grasping toddlers. But it's lit up and festive!

Owen broke my snow globe less than two minutes after I took it out of the box. The floor was covered in glass, water and glitter, and a wee Santa. I'm pretty sure after going over the floor on my hands and knees, twice, that it's all cleaned up.

ok, I know I'm kinda new and all... but I gotta say

:: I love you people!!!! ::

Thanks ND and KT for saying "you should join, they are like minded people" (paraphrase, cuz I don't recall exactly what they said to get me to join). This so reminds me of college, sitting around, chatting about the world, with tangents out the wazoo. (only we usually had a LOT of wine or beer when we did the chatting... this is mostly at work... or rather "work")

:: sits in corner and smiles ::

anyhow, gay marriage. Had a HUGE conversation with sister and rest of family. Their big argument was that marriage was about family and making babies and that gay marriage can't make babies (naturally speaking). Then I politely asked her if she and Dan were pregnant yet (knowing full well that with our genetic muscle disease, she has no desire to pass on the genes). She got flustered... taken aback a bit, and realized the error of her ways, but kept prodding, defending her situation. The rest of the family backed her up, which is when I looked at my Aunt and Uncle (married late in life) and asked them, "so, when are you two gonnna have a baby?" After a bit more redfaced from my sister (and huffs and puffs from A&U), my sister started to see what I was saying. After about an hour, I actually got my sister neutral (but looking in direction of against, but couldn't attack it). The rest of the family is hopelessly closed minded.

Funny, that night, health care was a big topic of it too. Ya, kinda sad how much we spend on health care, and it's NOT universal. When you think about it, we (who have health bennies) are paying extra to cover all those folks who are under/no insurance at hospitals. Furthurmore, out here in LA, not sure about rest of country, we have MANY hospitals and/or ER's closing down. If you don't think that is crisis, you need to get an injury and travel 30 extra miles to the next nearest hospital (in LA traffic!) that has available bed space for you.

oops, sorry ... /rant

I think that people who are horrified by the thought of gay marriage-- which to them is an unnatural act, the perpetrators of which wish to pretend, and wish everyone else to pretend as well, is sanctified by God and a moral society (marriage=sanctified by God)-- realize that their horror is not a logical basis on which to build an argument, so they make up things to make it sound reasonable, including undermining other marriages and health care issues.

Though, I could be talking out of my horror.