For instance, I am morally opposed to abortion. However, I don't believe that it should be illegal to get one. If someone wants to get one, that's on them and does not affect my morals at all.

Not on topic, but Aimee = my sistah.

Off what Sean said, even "morals" is a really broad term. That discussion need refining.

It's like that bullshit "Gay marriage undermines het marriage."

Wha-huh? How? How does GC and her GF or Kat and Lori or our friends E &T getting married make my marriage to Joe any less than what it is? Other couples, hets included, do not have any impact on the strength of my marriage. And I resent anyone who tells me that it does.

Off what Sean said, even "morals" is a really broad term. That discussion need refining.

Word to Cindy's mom. A critical thinking course should always address thorny, complex, emotion laden issues like "porn - good or bad?" but Aimee's class discussion has gone a little off the rails, in part because of the prof, and there is a lot of non-critical non-thinking going on.

And Aimee, you're doing an admirable job of trying to get it back on track. I hope some of what I've said can give you some extra ammo for that endeavor.

I completely agree that they can.

I know you do. I was thinking of them. Obviously they really can't, but are instead using emotion-laden words to append value judgements, and are expressing their fuzzy thinking and knee-jerk reactions to your statements on an emotional level instead of thinking things through and responding logically.

I hope that reads semi-logically. Aidan's beating me up.

critical thinking=willingness to consider that what you've previously held to be true is subject to change

Too many times people arguing from a morals standpoint equate morals with faith/belief, which is not often subject to criticism. A person can have both the capacity to criticize a subject and a firm faith in whatever, but the two occupy different spheres of thought.

IMO.

It's like that bullshit "Gay marriage undermines het marriage."

A very unproven assertion.

fuzzy thinking and knee-jerk reactions to your statements on an emotional level

Yep. "I had a bad experience with X, therefore X is evil and bad and wrong" is poor moral AND critical thinking. Seriously, fill in that blank with anything other than "porn" and it becomes ridiculous --

"I'm allergic to strawberries. Therefore, eating strawberries is a SIN."

"I was in a car accident. Therefore, driving is morally wrong."

"I was in a car accident. Therefore, driving is morally wrong."

"Satan tries to tempt me - he tells me all the errands I could get done in a day if I drove to them...."

The truth is, every marriage, gay or straight, has the capacity to undermine (or strengthen, but let's face it, we're pretty flawed, so it's usually undermine) marriage.

No-fault divorce has been one of the biggest (probably the biggest) underminers of marriage, and yet, it's also managed to be a big liberator of people who were in oppressive or abusive situations.

Too many times people arguing from a morals standpoint equate morals with faith/belief, which is not often subject to criticism. A person can have both the capacity to criticize a subject and a firm faith in whatever, but the two occupy different spheres of thought.

I don't know. Subjecting your faith to the scrutiny of criticism is scary, because what if the crit wins, but I think that sort of examination is necessary, or after a while, it's not so much faith as will.

I think it's more that it's all a big mix. Moral judgments aren't set in stone. That isn't to say everything is relative. I have an overall system of morals, that is inherent to my decision making process, and will probably change (overall) very little, throughout my life, but it is informed by the things I learn and it informs the things I learn, and how I apply it to decisions is very much dependent on all the facts of a given situation. So even though my moral system isn't relativisitic, sound moral decisions very much take into account all the facts available.

For example, Aimee just said she is morally opposed to abortion. This is one of her larger stances. We could restate this that Aimee believes human life is a good, in her moral system, and that she believes ending potential human life is not good.

That said, I'm pretty sure if a pregnant 12 year old who had been raped by her step-father showed up at Aimee's door, and said she was going to kill herself if she didn't get an abortion, Aimee would take her for medical care, including pre-natal care where she could get psychological counseling, and guidance about abortion, adoption, and gestation. And I'm pretty sure Aimee would take her to the abortion clinic, if the child still wanted the abortion after she got information and treatment from healthcare providers.

And she'd probably make her soup, after. And pick out an empowering Buffy episode for her. And send Sean and MM after the step-father.