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§ ita § - Apr 22, 2014 11:23:02 am PDT #5716 of 7329
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Since pandagon fell

This is what?


le nubian - Apr 22, 2014 4:33:38 pm PDT #5717 of 7329
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

that was her old site: pandagon.net she had with another main co-author. They blogged about 1-2x a day between them. Good posts back in the day.

They forgot to renew the domain name, so a squatter took it and wanted to charge them $10K to get it back.


Sean K - Apr 23, 2014 1:22:21 pm PDT #5718 of 7329
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

Marcotte was and is one of my gateways into feminism, so I'm still a fan. And you know, if the piece didn't speak to you or your reaction to the episode, then it didn't. I didn't feel like it was telling me I should feel bad about feeling good about Joffrey's death. I don't know, maybe I should go back and read it again.

As for Pandagon, I miss Jesse Taylor (one of the other bloggers from Pandagon) as a blogger, frankly. I don't know if he's writing anywhere any more, but if he was, I'd love to read his stuff again.


Amy - Apr 23, 2014 1:37:58 pm PDT #5719 of 7329
Because books.

I was thinking some more about the Sept sex scene, and I think I figured out what bothered me. Without having read the books, all i had to set up that scene was the past few episodes. In each one they emphasized poor woobie Jaime, who murdered people!, and lost his hand!, and never stopped trying to get home to Cersei!

Only to arrive and have her a) string him along for weeks, b) reject him, and pretty cruelly, too, and c) stand over the body of their dead child and ask him to murder his brother. Especially after he moans about the gods "making him a love a hateful woman," you could construe the whole chain of events as Cersei's fault, which is really loathsome victim blaming.

I think part of it was the way some of those scenes were shot and framed -- the earlier one, where Jaime is trying to woo her and she rejects him, ends (if I remember right) with him heartbroken and stunned, putting the focus on his reaction to it.

In the Sept scene, instead of ending on Cersei's expression (which, granted, would have been pretty grim), it ends with ... her hand clutching the fabric draping the table where Joffrey is laid out.

But someone elsewhere pointed out how much is stripped from her in the Sept even before Jaime arrives -- her father is methodically prying Tommen out of her grasp before she can even begin to influence him, unlike Joffrey, and making some pretty nasty allusions to what a shit Joffrey was at the same time (as well as her drinking, whoring, rapey husband Robert). She has nothing left now, and if the scene with Jaime had ended with a focus on her face, it would have really driven that home instead of how angry Jaime was at her for being a bitch. Does that make sense?


DebetEsse - Apr 23, 2014 1:46:34 pm PDT #5720 of 7329
Woe to the fucking wicked.

That makes perfect sense, Amy. It's interesting that Lena is the only one of the major figures involved in the scene (onscreen and behind the scenes) who we haven't heard from.

really loathsome victim blaming.

Yes. For all that I dislike Cersei (and I do. I totally own that.), I agree with your whole sentiment.

In the Sept scene, instead of ending on Cersei's expression

THIS would have been fascinating. And might have gone a long way to helping the director's argument of what he was going for, depending on the choice they made. In any case, it would have made it very much Cersei's scene, which is what it was trying to be, up until that point.


le nubian - Apr 23, 2014 1:50:35 pm PDT #5721 of 7329
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

you could construe the whole chain of events as Cersei's fault, which is really loathsome victim blaming.

I think this is pretty apt. In addition, (again, as someone who has not read the books), it makes me wonder about her previous statements about being as capable to rule as Jaime, and that she was resentful she didn't have a direct place in line.

Why doesn't SHE kill Tyrion herself if she really does see herself as a possible leader? It probably reinforces your statements above that she has increasingly felt powerless since Joffrey's betrothal, her upcoming marriage (is that still on the table), and now the loss of her son(s).


Amy - Apr 23, 2014 1:53:13 pm PDT #5722 of 7329
Because books.

I can't stand Cersei. I loathe her about as much as I did Joffrey, although I'm willing to admit she was dealt a pretty shitty hand in life (if you overlook being, you know, blonde and rich), especially for someone with her own ambitions.

And I'm not certain that the writer or director meant for the scene to come off as victim blaming, but it seems way too easy to read it that way. Especially if the scene in the book wasn't slanted the same way.


le nubian - Apr 23, 2014 1:54:20 pm PDT #5723 of 7329
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

the writer and director assert the scene as consensual sex.

Which is mindblowing to me.


DebetEsse - Apr 23, 2014 2:00:52 pm PDT #5724 of 7329
Woe to the fucking wicked.

her previous statements about being as capable to rule as Jaime, and that she was resentful she didn't have a direct place in line.

I think this is definitely her perception of herself. The extent to which it is true...I think not so much.

Why doesn't SHE kill Tyrion herself if she really does see herself as a possible leader?

Leaders don't do the dirty work themselves. For all that she is profoundly cruel, I don't know that she has the stomach for actual violence (Joffrey got his cruelty from his mother and his stomach from his father). Unless there's something I'm missing, she hasn't actually killed anyone, right? The only one I can remotely think of is Robert's unborn child.

her upcoming marriage (is that still on the table)

I'd lay a lot of money that it is.


Jessica - Apr 23, 2014 3:30:12 pm PDT #5725 of 7329
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

I know I can't actually defend Cersei, but I don't dislike her. I mean, she is a terrible, terrible person, but I don't see how anyone raised in her position could have turned out otherwise, and I really do believe she's doing the best she can.

It's incredibly hypocritical of Tywin to want to separate Tommen from her because of Joffrey - if Joffrey is Cersei's fault, then Cersei is Tywin's. Look at the three children he raised to adulthood and tell me Tommen is better off with him.