When you really sit down to delve into what produced him, it's actually possible to have some sympathy for Joffrey too.
Not, you know, a LOT.
On my seventh birthday, I wanted a toy fire truck, and I didn't get it, and you were real nice about it, and then the house next door burnt down, and then real firetrucks came, and for years I thought you set the fire for me. And if you did, you can tell me!
Xander ,'Same Time, Same Place'
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Sean K - Jun 10, 2013 11:49:03 am PDT #5349 of 7329
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
DebetEsse - Jun 10, 2013 11:55:09 am PDT #5350 of 7329
Woe to the fucking wicked.
I...think I would need that case laid out. And, even then, I am unlikely to find it compelling.
le nubian - Jun 10, 2013 12:00:27 pm PDT #5351 of 7329
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
I am 100% with Debet. Ultimately I don't give a shit about fucked up circumstances if you are a violent abusive tyrant. Joffrey doesn't seem to care about other people. Does he? Anyone else?
I realize there are other sadists in GOT. The books seem to be filled with them.
§ ita § - Jun 10, 2013 12:00:56 pm PDT #5352 of 7329
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Essos is a big continent. I'm sure she hasn't run out just yet.
Are they all explicitly brown in the books, or is this a PJ+Middle Earth extrapolation (I do hold Tolkien liable too, but death is ultimate evasion)?
Jessica - Jun 10, 2013 12:39:02 pm PDT #5353 of 7329
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
Are they all explicitly brown in the books, or is this a PJ+Middle Earth extrapolation (I do hold Tolkien liable too, but death is ultimate evasion)?
They probably are, but I don't remember explicitly. (And wouldn't it be Tolkien/Middle Earth's fault anyway? What with Aragorn's pure noble Western blood giving him the moral right to overthrow all those evil men from The East?)
Amy - Jun 10, 2013 12:44:09 pm PDT #5354 of 7329
Because books.
When you really sit down to delve into what produced him, it's actually possible to have some sympathy for Joffrey too.
Yeah, I don't know. That's like having sympathy for every vampire, I think.
Plus, this is not a kid who was abused or neglected -- he was adored and spoiled and well-fed. No matter what's in his genes, he doesn't have a lot of experiential reason to be as horrible as he is.
§ ita § - Jun 10, 2013 4:14:08 pm PDT #5355 of 7329
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
And wouldn't it be Tolkien/Middle Earth's fault anyway
I figured I covered that in:
I do hold Tolkien liable too
But that doesn't make PJ not complicit in having PoC's best shot at Middle Earth be under orc masks. As much as I have the hots for Lurtz, a family of darker-skinned hobbits wouldn't actually break the text. Not more than giving Arwen her action scene, for instance.
In Veep, didn't they call out the VP's mike on her person? Does that mean they caught everything she said even when they were trying for privacy?
Sean K - Jun 10, 2013 4:29:37 pm PDT #5356 of 7329
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
Okay, so Joffrey doesn't really get any sympathy. I'm just saying, his raging insanity isn't necessarily his fault, I guess. But neither was Aerys to blame for his own insanity, so no sympathy points.
As a sound footnote upon rewatch, I'm pretty sure this episode features every single one of the major musical themes featured in the show so far.
Jessica - Jun 10, 2013 7:12:18 pm PDT #5357 of 7329
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
Understanding that Joff was dealt a shit genetic hand doesn't mean I don't want to see his head on a stake.
Plus, this is not a kid who was abused or neglected -- he was adored and spoiled and well-fed. No matter what's in his genes, he doesn't have a lot of experiential reason to be as horrible as he is.
Yeah, however terrible at parenting Cersei/Robert/Jaime were, I'm pretty sure Gendry's childhood was objectively worse than Joff's. And Jon's, and Dany's, for that matter.
sumi - Jun 12, 2013 5:26:23 am PDT #5358 of 7329
Art Crawl!!!
Seriously.
Really want season 4 episode titles. Want to know where they start. . . I'm hoping with Joffrey's wedding. And I'm looking forward to the Mountain/Red Viper fight.
Also - do we think that Jaime sent Brienne to the cells? (as in the book) - but given that Loras Tyrell isn't a White Guard - would that happen?