Angel: Yeah, I never told anyone about this, but I-I liked your poems. Spike: You like Barry Manilow.

'Hell Bound'


The Great Write Way  

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Betsy HP - Jan 17, 2003 6:02:34 pm PST #427 of 10001
If I only had a brain...

"I'm smart and I'm going to show it"?

Almost certainly. And come to think of it, she did complain about too many culture references. Which are deliberate, and are character statements, and are all classic-romance-novel references (GWTW, Jane Eyre, P&P, all of which have had well-circulated video adaptations.)


Connie Neil - Jan 17, 2003 6:04:49 pm PST #428 of 10001
brillig

I drop strange references into stuff all the time (ask Teppy about my faux-James Joycean "Rain was general over Sunnydale" some time). I thought it was clever. Not everyone's going to get everything.


Betsy HP - Jan 17, 2003 6:05:24 pm PST #429 of 10001
If I only had a brain...

I just don't want to write a Look How Clever I Am novel.

Can you tell my junior-high-school insecurities are showing?


Connie Neil - Jan 17, 2003 6:06:25 pm PST #430 of 10001
brillig

That one would be a personal "is it a clever aside or does it stop the story and yell 'See! I paid attention in lit class!' and call attention to itself?" Case by case, naturally, the annoying things.


Ms. Havisham - Jan 17, 2003 7:47:50 pm PST #431 of 10001
And we will call it... "This Land."

Not wanting to write a look-how-clever-I-am story is perfectly valid. It sounds silly, but you might want to sit down and just count how many references there really are. How many per paragraph? Per page? Pull out a few published romances for comparison.

Not everyone's going to get everything.

And you can't please everyone. t mememe I got a crit that said "Your characters are unsympathetic, your pacing is glacial and your dialog is boring because it sounds too much like real people." Aside from being the only person who said anything this stringent, it's not terribly helpful. I mean, what does that leave? The font I wrote it in? t /mememe

Hope the crits you get are more helpful.


DavidS - Jan 17, 2003 8:53:22 pm PST #432 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Heh. I was just thinking about the phrase "too clever by half" the other day and decided that while I understood the complaint (and it's occasionally valid), that it usually reflects the speaker's insecurities. Because cleverness is a positive value. I guess it's problematic if its a kind of stunting. Preciousness I guess. But clever plotting and clever dialogue are big pluses with me.


Theodosia - Jan 17, 2003 9:01:33 pm PST #433 of 10001
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

You write for yourself first of all, and if you glory and take pleasure in being clever, then you should try to be as excellently clever as you can be. It may well be that a smaller, more specialized (Firefly-sized) audience is the only ones who are going to get it, but that's the breaks.


Susan W. - Jan 17, 2003 11:49:57 pm PST #434 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

IMO, as long as the cleverness serves the story--i.e. drives the plot, characters, mood, and/or setting--you're fine. I only mind clever if I think the only reason the author is doing it is to show off.

Subjective, I know, but you'd probably be able to recognize it if you gave the section a rest before you read it again and come to it fresh.


Steph L. - Jan 18, 2003 12:09:14 am PST #435 of 10001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

(ask Teppy about my faux-James Joycean "Rain was general over Sunnydale" some time). I thought it was clever. Not everyone's going to get everything.

The fact that I didn't catch that ref was MY issue, not yours, sweetie.


Rebecca Lizard - Jan 18, 2003 1:35:10 pm PST #436 of 10001
You sip / say it's your crazy / straw say it's you're crazy / as you bicycle your soul / with beauty in your basket

I drop strange references into stuff all the time (ask Teppy about my faux-James Joycean "Rain was general over Sunnydale" some time).

But hadn't you not actually either read "The Dead" at this point? Or I could be getting my Bitch canon mixed up