mmm...maybe that's why I type one-handed. But very few people devote their life to wank. Alex Portnoy maybe...the Munchkin(in between murders) Seriously, I've been published before,made a very few dollars, even. Nobody EVER asks me about those pieces. Put a couple detectives in a garbage dumpster, and everybody knows your pseud. It's like "Cheers" with porn.

Newspapers always need stringers, and while town meetings and such are hardly exciting, they do build up your resume and give you experience. Plus, they write themselves.

I think this is usually a great way to get started, Would you give the same advice to someone who had writing experience but wanted to do something different, especially if that person had little-to-no interest in newspaper work?

(My experience is mostly in newsletter reporting. I want to write features/reviews/magazine pieces/etc., and freelancing seems like an easier way to get to a point where I can do that than the "starting at the bottom" route. hence the "I have no ideas, therefore I suck," dance. The time factor for stringing would also be hard, especially with a full time job and no car. But it's possible I'm going about this all wrong.)

LJ, I love/ hate that dance. I'm the Arthur Murray of that one.

Lyra, what kind of writing do you want to do? And what "reward" do you want to get from it?

I've been thinking about this a lot myself lately, and surprised myself with some of the answers.

I'm skipping and playing hooky from work for a few minutes, so I don't really have time to elaborate at the moment, unfortunately.

Would you give the same advice to someone who had writing experience but wanted to do something different, especially if that person had little-to-no interest in newspaper work?

Sometimes. I've gone back that dirtection a number of times, and see no dishonor it, and if it helps you build toward where you want to go, then certainly.

Otherwise, I forget which part of the world you're in, but alternative newsweeklies are good markets, as are rock mags and the like. But really, the problem seems to be developing ideas to pitch here. I think you may just have to not psyche yourself out of it. Don't feel you have to pitch somethin monumental. Small ideas usually work well, and are accomplishable.

In an immediate way, it would mean I wasted my time

See, if you're talking about non-fiction, I can follow that reasoning. But if you're talking about fiction, then I think you're talking Martian. If you're compelled to write, if that's what it is you do, then how on earth can you measure your own originality as "wasted time"? That's beyond me.

If the only possible measure of the worth of my time spent writing was a paycheque, I'd have hung myself years ago. I don't get that. Do I want to get paid and have people like what I do? Certainly. Is it the reason I write? Hell the fuck no.

You may need to try to succeed -- but it seems to me that you also need to try to be a failure in the world, as opposed to only in your head.

Yup - and that's what I said, earlier. You go completely after one ideal, you get to deal with it's Janus-face. They're both part of the cycle of breathing, so you (disclaimer: all use of the word "you" indicates Everyman, not any one individual "you") won't get anywhere without doing your best to grok both of them.

what kind of writing do you want to do? And what "reward" do you want to get from it?

I've been thinking about that a lot lately, too. Basically, I have two answers: artistic and practical.

Artistically, I'd like to be a really, really *good* magazine writer, like Elizabeth Gilbert or Tad Friend. I don't know if I have that in me, but it's kind of my goal.

Practically, I'd like to be able to make my living by writing stuff I enjoy writing -- features, essays, the occasional review.

I'd be happy if the mix settled at 40% artistically fulfilling/60% pays the bills and doesn't make my eyes bleed from boredom. Or even 20% artistic/60% nonboring, pays the bills/20% eye-bleedingly boring. Right now it's all boring, and that is the problem.

As for a reward ... I am shallow, okay? Money is nice, but I think I'd trade a fair amount of money for the buzz from seeing something I wrote in a publication I like and respect. If I got recognition for it, or fulfilled the proverbial goal of changing the world, that would be icing on the cake.

I forget which part of the world you're in, but alternative newsweeklies are good markets, as are rock mags and the like. But really, the problem seems to be developing ideas to pitch here.

Pretty much, yeah. The thing that kills em is that I *know* I could have something in the D.C. City Paper by spring if I put half as much time and energy into actually getting published as I did into agonizing over it.

(I know, the question is .... what am I waiting for? That's the problem.)

if you're talking about non-fiction, I can follow that reasoning. But if you're talking about fiction, then I think you're talking Martian.

Nonfiction only, definitely. I like writing fiction as a hobby, and of course I'd love to publish a novel someday. But I agree with you that writing it only for money/publication is at best Martian reasoning.

But I agree with you that writing it only for money/publication is at best Martian reasoning.

Heh. Also, wrist-slash inducing. But for the few non-fiction things I've published, the paycheque was definitely one-half the point. Very much with you there.

It seems to me that what is missing is the hook into something you are passionate about.

Practically, I'd like to be able to make my living by writing stuff I enjoy writing -- features, essays, the occasional review.

I'm talking subject matters now... What do you LOVE to talk about? What gets you passionate? Cats, family issues, politics, poetry --whatever. You will write better, and it will matter more to you that you write it-the time is not wasted if it's learning or driven by something that excites your mind.

If you cannot identify a subject you feel passionate enough to write about whether anybody publishes it or not, that's the gap you need to close.

ETA: Also,

As for a reward ... I am shallow, okay? Money is nice, but I think I'd trade a fair amount of money for the buzz from seeing something I wrote in a publication I like and respect.

this is not at all SHALLOW. Repeat after me.

NOT AT ALL SHALLOW to want to make money as recompense and NOT AT ALL SHALLOW to want to be excited by the results of publication.

Curiosity leads me to the question of what you would consider a sufficiently "lofty" motivation for writing? Sounds like you're pretty hard on yourself which no doubt makes it hard to keep motivated.

(Not a writer, just avoiding work....)

Lyra Jane, I don't know what's been going on at the City Paper over the last five years, but it seems like everyone who worked there then with a friend of mine is in New York now with fancy jobs: Time, the Voice, NYTimes, etc. I'm clearly not in that world, but from where I sit, City Paper looks like a huge gateway. And my friend went to CP from Congressional Quarterly, I think, so it's not like you need to already be doing cool things to start there.